Diezel VH4 vs. Bogner Ecstasy

[rockerjt]

I have a 2009 Bogner Ecstasy, and find it to be a very good amp, very nice tone, flexible and spongy, etc. Great qualities I looked for in Marshalls, but never found. I still find myself wanting a bit more. More gain, more flexibilty, but still great tone. I mostly play classic rock and some 80's metal, occasionally more modern stuff (think Beautiful Creatures first album; similar to that). No Nu Metal Heavy Cookie Monster stuff. Anyway, I have a chance to get a VH4 for my Ecstasy and some cash. Do you guys feel that this amp will be good for the type of music I do, or is it more for modern metal type music? Can it get sweet and spongy, or would you consider it stiff and hi-tech sounding? I have had these points presented to me as negatives with this amp, and I have had very few chances to personally play one. I've also heard that it could be wonderful, and the best, most flexible amp I would ever own. Any info from people with real experience is appreciated.

BTW, have had an Einstein (which is loved, but wanted at least 3 channels, so I got rid of it) and a Herbert, which was a little too heavy and hi-tech sounding for my tastes, although it could've just been me not dialing it in right. I already have a Diezel rear loaded 4x12 cab with greenbacks in it (that I am going to switch out back to V30's), if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

JT

 

[dass101]

Our friend Ventura has both, I am sure that he will chime in

 

[rockerjt]

I'd love to hear from Ventura or anyone else that can shed some light. Thanks.

 

[QueenCityGuitars]

I had the exact same questions and concerns that you have, rockerjt. I've owned a ton of amps (Soldano SLO 100, Bogner Ecstasy, Bogner Uberschall, pre-500 Dual Rectifier, etc) and the amp I liked the most was the Ecstasy 101B with EL34s in it. However, I wanted a little more gain and a little more versatility too. I didn't like how the Ecstasy didn't have one master volume to turn the whole amp up and down after adjusting the independent volumes on each channel and I didn't like the patch cable in from the send to the return of the effects loop to use that as a master volume. So, recently I bought a 2009 Diezel VH4 and 2009 Diezel 4x12 cabinet (front-loaded with Celestion G12K100s). The features on this amp are outstanding. Everything is on the front of the amp, it has a master volume to turn the whole thing up and down after mixing the channel volumes where you want them, it has a serial and a parallel effects loop, etc. Channel 1 is an awesome clean tone (which is usually uncommon on a high-gain amp) and Channel 2 has a nice AC/DC kind of tone. As far as Channel 3 and 4 are concerned, they sound great. You won't believe how quiet the amp is on those channels. However, they are compressed (which you may not like; you may even find Channel 4 unusable). That being said, I have a 2009 and VH4 amps from 2007 to now seem be voiced that way. The 2006 and back (to my understanding) are a little less compressed. Mark2C on this forum has suggested a resistor and power tube change (that I have not done yet) to fix the fizzy/compressed nature of Channels 3 and 4. You may want to message or email him for the specifics.

Overall, I think the amp is amazing and my "complaints" with the fizz/compression are small. It's a great amp but I equate it to an automobile. If you want a smooth ride straight off the assembly line, buy a Lexus. If you don't mind tweaking, adjusting, and working on a high-powered piece of machinery, go for the Ferrari. Best of luck!

 

[FourT6and2]

It's a tough decision. The XTC is a great amp. IMO, the VH4 won't get you that same sweet, saggy and woody tone that Bogners are known for. The VH4, while incredibly versatile, does have more of a hi-fi sound compared to the XTC. For me, though that's a good thing. I used to have a Bogner and I loved it but it was TOO saggy and woody for my tastes and that's why I went to Diezel. Bogner and Diezel are almost like two sides of the same coin (forgive the cliche). It's hard to describe, but the VH4 can get many fantastic tones but they are always going to have that Diezel Character - which leans toward the modern, hi-fi, tight end of the spectrum as compared to Bogner which leans the other way.

But, as some examples listen to bands that used Diezel amps on their recordings: Muse, Tool, Metallica, Killswitch Engage, Mastodon, Billy Corgan/Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Guns N' Roses, George Lynch, Godsmack, and etc...

For 80's metal the VH4 would shine, especially on Channel 3 with the mids turned up.

Really, you need to go out and play one.

Here's the Diezel site with soundclips, though... http://diezel.typo3.inpublica.de/soundclips.30.0.html

 

[nbarts]

keep what you have

 

[Mizati20]

From what your describing it sounds like you already have your dream amp... I have the VH-4 and while it will get you close to your wanting, it won't get you any closer then what your XTC does... vintage and spongy wouldn't be anywhere close to the words I would use to describe the VH-4... just sounds like you have the grass is greener syndrome

 

[rockerjt]

Probably. Always GASing and had a chance on a good deal to get what I heard is a great amp. Will be sticking with the Ecstasy though. Thanks all.

From what your describing it sounds like you already have your dream amp... I have the VH-4 and while it will get you close to your wanting, it won't get you any closer then what your XTC does... vintage and spongy wouldn't be anywhere close to the words I would use to describe the VH-4... just sounds like you have the grass is greener syndrome

 

[PaulyPanacea]

From your description i would have to say stick with the Bogner. Sounds more your style.

 

[rockerjt]

Thanks. I appreciate the advice from guys that know. Always chasing after tone though, you know?

From your description i would have to say stick with the Bogner. Sounds more your style.

 

[Ventura]

Our friend Ventura has both, I am sure that he will chime in

Aloha Cats!!

Well alright... VERY interesting question, or, moreso, interesting "predicament". I'm not going to complicate your life with a diatribe loaded with mixed messages. I will speak about my experiences with both a 20thA (EL34) and my VH4S (6550). Please note, I've had some one on one experience with several other XTC iterations as well...I chose the 20thA as it bridged the gap I found missing in the other 100's and 101's.

Anyway, the V is an incredible amp. It's sonically amazing - and does a lot of stuff, very very well. It's got great cleans, and incredible crunch channel, and outstanding gain channel, and a fairly flexible lead channel (respectively, Channels 1, 2, 3, and 4). The thing about the V is that it's a really versatile amp - as is. I think James (Lugo) summed it up by saying it's his best studio amp as it can do country ( ) to Springsteen ( ) to AC/DC ( ) to harder rockin' classics ( ) to awesome, superlative metal like Tool and others ( )!!! It does it really really well - and sounds terrific both live and in a studio environment. So, for a 4 channel monster, it's an incredibly versatile amp and it's got a signature tone anytime the gain structure leaks into the signal...and it's a very tasty signature tone at that!!

My experience with the 20thA is different. As mentioned, I got the 20thA with EL34's because, albeit the other iterations were golden, they lacked some of the kick and gain I wanted... It was the best of all the XTC's put together in my opinion. The 20thA covers a HELL of a lot of ground, and although this sounds as though it's the same as the V, it's not. One can really tailor the XTC to sound like a lot of "other" amps out there...it's adjustments and tonal controls are insane - I've been referring to it as the Swiss Army Knife of amps - it does all kinds of stuff, and does it really well. But where the V has a signature tone throughout its musical spectrum, the 20thA has less of a "signature" tone, and just more "tone". And this tone is oozing out of every note squeezed from your ax... It's bloody incredible. What is key with the 20thA is that it maintains that chewy woody almost-vintagey brown tone, but adds a sheen of glistening hot metal into the mix... Not like "nu metal" cookie monster stuff, just an aggression that wasn't able on the older other models. It's an AMAZING amp!!! Period. And I've said it before and I'll say it again - it DRIPS with tone...

So, you've got a killer amp but you want just a wee bit more of something it already offers? I'd say maybe try out a 20thA with EL34's (I stress the EL34's as opposed to the stock 6L6's due to its gnarly growl that's just sublime!!). The VH4(S) won't get you into a 'woody' brown tone, it won't get you into a 'chewy' tone (well, maybe with Channel 2 EQ'd just right), and it certainly doesn't have one iota of "vintagey" tone to it. It's a modern amp, loaded with cutting, percussive, and surgically TIGHT razor like tone. It's wicked. But it's not a step "up" from the XTC...it's a step into another neighborhood.

I have both. I could not give either up as they both have unique and special attributes solely unto their separate selves. I'd be completely distraught if I lost either one while having the other. I will say though, that from zero to hero, clean to mean, the 20thA does it with a bit more sauce and character and a player's style of looseness. The V will go from clean to mean to sinister, and throughout it all, maintain this sharp percussive tight feel, and a signature tone that screams DIEZEL.

Hope this helps Bro....
V.

 

[rockerjt]

Ventura;

That helps a lot.

Now I need a VH4 and a 20th Anniversary Ecstasy. Seriously though, may have to start saving for a 20th ann model. Sounds perfect.

 

[Ventura]

Glad to be of assistance... If the 101B is giving you what you need, but you just wish it was on steroids, get the EL34 loaded 20thA. It'll knock yer socks off. I would go this route first, and from there you can decide on whether or not you really need a VH4.

Peace,
V.

 

[rockerjt]

Actually, I think that is exactly what I am going to do; that sounds like what I have been looking for. Thanks.

Glad to be of assistance... If the 101B is giving you what you need, but you just wish it was on steroids, get the EL34 loaded 20thA. It'll knock yer socks off. I would go this route first, and from there you can decide on whether or not you really need a VH4.

Peace,
V.

 

[Ventura]

Good luck, and don't cheap out, get the 4x12 loaded with V30's... I typically can't stand the mid spikey, noisy, abrasive raunch of the V30's, but the cats at Bogner definitely dialed the tone of the head to this cab loaded with V30's. I'm amazed - it sounds 100% primo. I've been leery of V30's in the past, but this is the first time ever I've heard a cab fully loaded, even partially loaded, with V30's that sounds soooooooo dripping with tone. It's got balls on the red channel, you'll be able to get the smooth compressed gains of today's style of metal, and everything else right down to jazzy brown cleans, and with a single coil guitar, spanking slappin' crystal cleans.

Enjoy it Braddah... It's an incredible amp.

V.

 

[rockerjt]

Thanks Bro; I have a Bogner with greenbacks now, but will prob get the V30 loaded cab, as I previously had one and thought it sounded better with the Ecstasy. Reinhold says the Ecstasy was voiced with V30's in mind. Can't wait to try out the 20th Anniversary Ecstasy.

Thanks for all the info; see you on the Bogner forum.

JT

Good luck, and don't cheap out, get the 4x12 loaded with V30's... I typically can't stand the mid spikey, noisy, abrasive raunch of the V30's, but the cats at Bogner definitely dialed the tone of the head to this cab loaded with V30's. I'm amazed - it sounds 100% primo. I've been leery of V30's in the past, but this is the first time ever I've heard a cab fully loaded, even partially loaded, with V30's that sounds soooooooo dripping with tone. It's got balls on the red channel, you'll be able to get the smooth compressed gains of today's style of metal, and everything else right down to jazzy brown cleans, and with a single coil guitar, spanking slappin' crystal cleans.

Enjoy it Braddah... It's an incredible amp.

V.

 

[_actual time_]

For me, though that's a good thing. I used to have a Bogner and I loved it but it was TOO saggy and woody for my tastes and that's why I went to Diezel.

for me, KT77s in my 101B tighten it up nicely; less EL34 snarl and add a bit more glassier highs.

i need to try a Diezel someday, VH4 and a Herbert.

 

[Ventura]

For me, though that's a good thing. I used to have a Bogner and I loved it but it was TOO saggy and woody for my tastes and that's why I went to Diezel.

for me, KT77s in my 101B tighten it up nicely; less EL34 snarl and add a bit more glassier highs.

i need to try a Diezel someday, VH4 and a Herbert.

Ya, be careful though... Trying a VH4 or a Herbster will lead you to buying one. SO unless you can afford it when you try it, don't try it

V.