Diezel VH4 Vs VHT UL or ENGL invader

[hopkinWFG]

Hi guys i havent tried one diezel yet so did i tried VHT or ENGL's invader... but i would like to know how well would a diezel's VH4 goes out for their tonality quality... comparing with ENGL and VHT's UL how well would the overall perception measures for their tightness, warmness, versatility and of course Gain ....

i heard VHT's gain are dry sounding and its less saturated but more organically enhanced is more on like it or not... ENGL's raw "processed" tone so how would the mark for diezel's VH4 or any of the other line of amplification which diezel offers?? kindly hear from kind users of diezel amps

 

[petereanima]

i tried all of them before i ended up with the diezel herbert. i quickly fell in love with the VH4 when i first tried it and then tried other amps in that price-range (i originally didn't want to spend that amount of money on a new amp but after playing the VH4 there was no way back).

EDIT: i'm talking here mainly bout the high gain section. i tested of course all other channels too, but excesseively tested the high gain section because this is for me the most used section. maybe someone else can talk about cleans and low gain...

i didn't really like the invader. of course its super tight (what i liked) and veryvrey versatile and can handle almost every kind of sound anyone would look for...but for me it was just too sterile sounding, kind of a lifeless tone...les "organic" if you want. don't get me wrong - very good amp and i see a lot of people digging it and it fits theyr style very well - it was just nothing for me. i just expected a more "recognitionable" sound out of an 3000,- euro amp...

the VHT UL is a hell of an amp and it was a tough decision not to buy it. and yes, it fucking dries out the sahara.

i then plugged in the VH4 again..and it beats both if you ask me. its over-the-top-tight-as-a-virgin sound roared out of the speakers as none of the other amps did, a punch in the stomach that almost hurt. its a completely different amp than the UL or the Invader, a dry sound as at the VHT you won't find here, so this is really up to personal taste.

i finally then went with the diezel herbert. in "normal" modes you can get some "similar" tones out of both (VH4 + Herbert) altough VH4 is even tighter. but altough i herewith run in danger to sound like a "OMG THE BR00TALZ!!!11"-kid: i admit, it really was the mid-cut of the herbert which made me buy it. but you have to try for yourself to know what this really does..

 

[hopkinWFG]

Godly truth !!!!! hell i dont know if i would wanna spend that amount of money on that amplifier as only for home practises.. but hell is my hobby and i al living all out on that... the sound you describe is like a sure win for VH4 !!! i checked out the VH4 and i found that it looked sweet as well... as residing at southeast asia i think its 100 percent where is rarer to find diezel's amplifier perhaps none of it even after few 100 years to come and by then i would have decayed and reincarninated lol... but how much would the best price would get for a VH4 at USD ?? i knew VHT UL was like round 3.2k USD best offered

 

[i.ak]

Hi guys i havent tried one diezel yet so did i tried VHT or ENGL's invader... but i would like to know how well would a diezel's VH4 goes out for their tonality quality... comparing with ENGL and VHT's UL how well would the overall perception measures for their tightness, warmness, versatility and of course Gain ....

i heard VHT's gain are dry sounding and its less saturated but more organically enhanced is more on like it or not... ENGL's raw "processed" tone so how would the mark for diezel's VH4 or any of the other line of amplification which diezel offers?? kindly hear from kind users of diezel amps

Hi,

We just finished recording our three song EP. Our other guitar player uses ENGL Invader and I use VH4, so I might have some input here. I could post some clips after we have sorted them a bit.

In very general terms and short expressions:
- I think the ENGL Darth Vader is less organic sounding.
- ENGLs in general sound a bit processed, but fat.
- I also think that the ENGL is darker sounding, but some might argue about this.
- The Invader has more gain from which approximately 50 % is already useless. Also VH4 has more than enough gain for the most demanding.
- Both amps cleans are very good, but the ENGL stays clean a bit longer.
- Both are tight, but I prefer the tightness of a VH4 for sure.
- Both are very bassy when dialed.
- No nice power amp distortion from ENGL, but tons of pre amp sizzle and grit for metalheads.
- Invader sounds more "preampish" than VH4, which is more "traditional" sounding.
- Im not convinced about the Invader's noise gate (which one may turn off).
- Invader's highs are very sharp and spiky, not very musical.
- VH4 is very very very focused sounding, esp. when lowering the gain settings, but still does not sound dry.
- Both amps are very loud if wanted.
- Both amps are versatile, but I think the Invader might go even a bit further when looking for the most extreme sounds.
- VH4 seems to be more reliable, but can't really comment on this due to the narrow sampling.
(- I prefer the VH4 )
(- My friend prefers the Invader )

Did I manage to make you any more confused?

 

[petereanima]

- The Invader has more gain from which approximately 50 % is already useless. Also VH4 has more than enough gain for the most demanding.

i'd even say for EVERY demand - i used to crank gain on 100% on previous amps. VH4 and herbert - bnoth channel 3 i dial gain MAXIMUM on 1-2 o clock and this is more then enough.

 

[hopkinWFG]

Thanks there alot !!! i think i have gotta get one and try it LOL but it cost a hell damn bomb.... let me know whats the best price for a VH4 in usd then?? would it be getting it cheaper directly from germany??

would a VH4 slave down the power output section to half or lower for bedroom practises?? would the sound or tonality changes then?

 

[scottph]

They cost the same pretty much everywhere in the world.

Reducing the output power by removing powertubes will not significantly reduce the volume. You would need to reduve by a factor of 10 to half the volume of the amp, and that's not doable.

 

[hopkinWFG]

They cost the same pretty much everywhere in the world.

Reducing the output power by removing powertubes will not significantly reduce the volume. You would need to reduve by a factor of 10 to half the volume of the amp, and that's not doable.

it would not sound as nice as cranked tubes to volume at more than half IE : at volume 6 ... other than lower volume like 1 ??

 

[Lexicon Devil]

I don't know about the Engl or the VHT that you mentioned, but getting good tone at low volume from the VH-4 is easily achieved by turning the master volume up halfway and using the preamp volumes to set your levels. Of course you can also spend an extra $300 or so and use a hotplate, but that can be done with any amp as well.

 

[JohnRageOn]

I would not discuss about the ENGL since I don't find them a high end manufacturer like Diezel and VHT (the guts of a Sony VCR seem more high end to me than an ENGL LOL) and I believe i.ak covered the subject well enough.
I've owned and still own many of VHT products and I can say that their build quality is top notch, identical to Diezels.
Tone wise they're worlds apart. They're focused on different frequencies. Now concerning a UL and a VH4, here is what my ears are 'saying' and some thoughts on functionality:
Both have usable gain (even if it's on 11, no hisses or hum)
VH4 sounds rawer, UL grittier and edgier.
VH4 has more pronounced bass mid frequencies.
UL has more headroom (without saying that VH4 is a sissy amp).
UL has the option of a master graphic EQ, VH4 not.
VH4 has 4 channels with independent controls, UL has only 2 1/2 channels.
UL is not as much 'user' friendly as a VH4.
The clean on VH4 is more percussive and bluesy and on UL more crystal sounding.
Both have great amount of balls and compliment each other very well !!!

Personally I sticked with VH4 and I'm not considering selling it.

 

[van hellion]

diezel amps are just in a league of there own. not saying that other amps arent nice because i track with all kinds of defferent amps including vht's but the diezel stuff just works for me the best, second place going to bogners then splawns after that. just my 2 cents.
peace
A Wood

 

[angelspade]

I have owned a couple of Engl amps and I currently own both a Vh4 and a Herbert. I personally do not consider Engls to be in the same league as the Diezel products. I do not find the build quality of the Engl amplifiers to be very impessive at all (I have seen the interior of both a Powerball and an Invader). In regards to tone, the Engls are overgained at the front end (pre-amp) in my opinion. They sound pretty good at "bedroom volumes" because of the saturation you get from the pre-amp...but never display that power section warmth and wallop that you get from the VH4 when you crank them up. I also find the Engls to sound a bit "fake" in their inherant gain characteristics..."processed" sounding comes to mind. On top of all that goodness, I have always felt their top end sounded brittle and piercing. On the other hand the VHT stuff is great...very high quality products that sound fantastic...dry, but fantastic. I often hear people comparing the VHT UL to the Diezel VH4, but I dont find them to be all that similar. If you are looking for a third alternative to Diezel and VHT, I recommend that you look into Rivera (or even Framus)...particularlly the KTRE and KR7 heads. Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. I am embarassed to admit that I've owned or played just about everything out there.

 

[i.ak]

I have owned a couple of Engl amps and I currently own both a Vh4 and a Herbert. I personally do not consider Engls to be in the same league as the Diezel products. I do not find the build quality of the Engl amplifiers to be very impessive at all (I have seen the interior of both a Powerball and an Invader). In regards to tone, the Engls are overgained at the front end (pre-amp) in my opinion. They sound pretty good at "bedroom volumes" because of the saturation you get from the pre-amp...but never display that power section warmth and wallop that you get from the VH4 when you crank them up. I also find the Engls to sound a bit "fake" in their inherant gain characteristics..."processed" sounding comes to mind. On top of all that goodness, I have always felt their top end sounded brittle and piercing. On the other hand the VHT stuff is great...very high quality products that sound fantastic...dry, but fantastic. I ofter hear people comparing the VHT UL to the Diezel VH4, but I dont find them to be all that similar. If you are looking for a third alternative to Diezel and VHT, I recommend that you look into Rivera (or even Framus)...particularlly the KTRE and KR7 heads. Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. I am embarassed to admit that I've owned or played just about everything out there.

Looks like that our impressions about ENGL are rather similar.

Personally I do not recommend Framus, but I have not owned one ever so my comment here has hardly any value. My former band's another guitar player had a Cobra, which I did not like at all. However, the Cobra and VH4 mixed together surprisingly well -- at least for aggressive mid-range boosted 7 & 8-string death-thrash metal grooving.

 

[hopkinWFG]

Hi there !! firstly thanks alot guys !!! for helping out that far !!!!! is really an eye popping scenerio for me to hear most of them own more than one diezel !!! or a VHT.. where do you guys get the money from?? LOL..... anyway i would think VHT or Diezel are still Top notch since most of them commented on ENGL's perhaps ENGl's league are on MESA's comparable..

Thanks alot guys i would either be eyeing for VHT or a Diezel VH4 !!!! i would have problem hunting for 240 Volts Diezels i guess lol...

 

[rbone100]

I own both a VH4 and a VHT CLX. The CLX gets away from the dryness that you are speaking of from the UL. The CLX is basically the same as a UL but the CLX has EL34's instead of KT88's.

My VH4 and my CLX are two amp that I would never ever get rid of!

Just my 2 cents.

Ralphie
http://www.vhtusers.com (I am the admin at this board)

 

[angelspade]

Hi there !! firstly thanks alot guys !!! for helping out that far !!!!! is really an eye popping scenerio for me to hear most of them own more than one diezel !!! or a VHT.. where do you guys get the money from?? LOL..... anyway i would think VHT or Diezel are still Top notch since most of them commented on ENGL's perhaps ENGl's league are on MESA's comparable..

Thanks alot guys i would either be eyeing for VHT or a Diezel VH4 !!!! i would have problem hunting for 240 Volts Diezels i guess lol...

Not to keep bashing ENGL, but in my opnion they do not meet Mesa's standards of build quality or tone in most cases. If you can afford a Diezel...buy one. Odds in Vegas are that you will not regret it.

 

[i.ak]

There is nothing bad about ENGLs and they DO sound extremely great for certain needs, but they are more "mass produced" feeling amps. On the other hand, you can get about two ENGLs for the price of one Diezel or VHT so it really is not that simpple question.

Also Mesa products' have favourable as well as unfavourable qualities. One major issue with Mesa is the price in Europe in relation to quality, sound and realiability. It is a completely different situation in i.e. US. ...but this is already out of topic here.

 

[JohnRageOn]

I own both a VH4 and a VHT CLX. The CLX gets away from the dryness that you are speaking of from the UL. The CLX is basically the same as a UL but the CLX has EL34's instead of KT88's.

My VH4 and my CLX are two amp that I would never ever get rid of!

Just my 2 cents.

Ralphie
http://www.vhtusers.com (I am the admin at this board)

The CLX and Classic are awesome heads \m/

 

[hopkinWFG]

Hi guys ! thanks for all the effort in balling out the difference of VHT UL to a diezel VH4.... i have also heard of diezel's herbert which is just slightly looser compared to VH4 but still maintaining the tight sounding of diezel's trademark tone.

as for the price i guess i might go for a herbert but i found out that it has gotta three channel without lead channel... would i be wrong to say that i cannot boost my solo a bit more meaty from the amp direct thru the footswitch ??

 

[scottph]

Dude, you really need to put in an effort and read this forum as well as the official Diezel page - your questions are all answered and what you heard is wrong.