Different versions of Herbert... What's different?

[HumdinGer]

Hi. I'm going to buy a used Herbert serial number 001/787. I guess by what I've been reading in another topic that this is a mk2 made in '06-'07?

My questions are: What's the difference between the mk1 and the mk2 of the Herbert? Is there a mk3 as well, and if so, what's the difference from the mk2? I'm especially curious if there are any differences in the sound (like the old 2channel Recto being a little more aggressive/brutal than the 3channel, that sort of differences). Any first hand expiriences, or mabe Peter himself got the time to answer this ?

 

[SpicedMuffin]

the only difference there is i believe is the first change was adding
external bias points then peter added a fault led for the fuses/tubes
tone wise iam not really sure

 

[reussen]

I had a mk1 Herbert. It sounded different from the newer models. Not sure of there is a mk3 or something out there. Mk1 sounded more "closed" to my ears and I liked the new Herberts better. Guess that was around 2005/6.

Bottom line: both were awesome amps. Play it. If you like it, then keep it!

 

[HumdinGer]

I had a mk1 Herbert. It sounded different from the newer models. Not sure of there is a mk3 or something out there. Mk1 sounded more "closed" to my ears and I liked the new Herberts better. Guess that was around 2005/6.

Thanks. I read a review by a guy at Harmony Central who's had his mk1 Herbert upgraded to mk2, and he says "With a bit of tweaking, I can get much closer to that Bogner XTC Classic crunch sound". I've never tried a Bogner either, so I'm not sure what that means. Does the mk2 have a little more mids? It would suit me nicely if it did.

In the past I've owned Marshall JCM800 and JCM900, Peavey 5150, Mesa Studio Preamp and Fifty/Fifty, Mesa 2ch Triple Recto, Mesa Recto Rec Pre and Strategy 400, Engl Fireball, Engl Savage SE, B52 ST60. I now own a Engl SE EL34 and a Mesa Roadster. Many years ago I bought a Mesa Recto 4x12" with Celestion V30 speakers witch I'm still using. I hope it'll be good enough for the Herbert too
The Roadster will have to go to get Herbert. In fact I liked my old 2ch Triple Recto better. It sounded more brutal than the Roadster, and I hope Herbert will too. The only sound I really like from the Recto that my Engl doesn't do better is the modern high-gain with lots of mids tuned in, and that's exactly the sound I think the old 2ch did better (or worse if you want... more aggressive, more brutal). If I can find that brutalness and aggression in the Herbert I'll be more than satisfied.

Anyway... If someone can confirm that the amp I'm buying has the most mids of the different Herberts then there'll be no reason for me to try a different version if I'm not completely satisfied. I'm really looking forward to test it

 

[reussen]

I'm pretty sure you can dial in all the mids you like, especially if you're coming from Mesa territory. The difference I mentioned has more to do with the total voicing. In my experience, any Diezel amp can be tweaked to liking if you dig the voicing. It'll have more mids than you'll ever need.

 

[HumdinGer]

I'm pretty sure you can dial in all the mids you like, especially if you're coming from Mesa territory. The difference I mentioned has more to do with the total voicing. In my experience, any Diezel amp can be tweaked to liking if you dig the voicing. It'll have more mids than you'll ever need.

That sounds great
Can't wait to try the Diezel. It won't arrive until the end of next week, but I'll post a little review when I've tried it.

By the way... Peter Diezel, can you please confirm what year and version the 001/787 Herbert is? Thanks.

 

[HumdinGer]

Today I got the message that my Herbert is on its way. I'm really looking forward to "his" arrival. In the meantime I'm trying once more to ask if Peter Diezel could please confirm the version and year of the 001/787 Herbert?

 

[petereanima]

the only difference in the "versions" are the external bias-access-points. you can read in several threads that nothing else has been changed (besides the tubes which came stock in the amps).

 

[HumdinGer]

the only difference in the "versions" are the external bias-access-points. you can read in several threads that nothing else has been changed (besides the tubes which came stock in the amps).

Yes, I've understod that the diffrences, except for the first 30 made, are not that big. Thanks. I'm just curious of the year and version of my new Herbert serial number 001/787. Hope Peter will take the time to tell me

 

[scottph]

I have Herbert 001/673 and it's a late 06 model, so I'm guessing yours is early to mid 07.

 

[HumdinGer]

I have Herbert 001/673 and it's a late 06 model, so I'm guessing yours is early to mid 07.

Thanks. Regarding the difference in sound I guess testing different tube combinations are the way to go. Like I mentioned earlier I love that modern high-gain with lots of mids from the old 2-channel Rectifier. If I could get that sound, but with tight bottom end, then it'll be the perfect amp for me. Are there anyone who's tried different tubes who can recommend what tubes to use for more of that raw, brutal and aggressive mids?

 

[scottph]

Imo powertubes don't really color your tone all that much, it's the preamp tubes. Also, try to fiddle with the ones you will have in it for the time being. Herbert is full of awesome tones.

 

[Duolos]

My advice is for you to actually get the amp and see what the amp can do and learn the amp before you worry about tubes and if it can get certain tones or not. Play it and spend time with it and you will get to know it and I am fully confident that you will love it as is.

 

[HumdinGer]

My advice is for you to actually get the amp and see what the amp can do and learn the amp before you worry about tubes and if it can get certain tones or not. Play it and spend time with it and you will get to know it and I am fully confident that you will love it as is.

Point taken. I had to ship my Mesa Roadster last monday, so I guess that I'm just a little unpatient and perhaps a little nervous about not being satisfied with the Herbert Let's hope I got nothing to worry about

 

[HumdinGer]

Mr Herbert has arrived

 

[guitarobert]

Played through several Mesas recently, including the Roadster and Triple Rectifier. I had never really liked the Mesa tone before when I tried them in the past, and this time was no different. I was able to turn them up, but everything came off as brittle, thin, and muddy. In summary they were just very unimpressive compared to a Diezel. In terms of overall tone as well as brutality, I'm confident that your Herbert will blow both of those amps away and you will forget that you ever owned them. Enjoy!

 

[HumdinGer]

Well, I guess i can start by saying that the "raw" setting on the Roadster doesn't in any way compare to the RAW sound of the Herbert! I still have to say that it can't reproduce the pure aggression of the modern high-gain setting of my old 2ch Triple Rectifier. But then again... That's not what it's meant to do! I just have to face the fact that an amp that does absolutely everything I want it to doesn't exist. What I love about my Engl SE EL34 is that raw mids with a tight bottom. Herbert does that better, no doubt about it! I just love that raw mids... So mean... So brutal. I don't quite understand the need for so much gain though. I mean... With my Dimebucker I can't go past 9 o´clock on the gain on channel 3. Even the minus setting on channel 2 can produce more gain than my old Marshalls. I love usable gain, but this is just total overkill!!!. The important thing though is that I can get that raw, brutal mids that no other amp I´ve ever tried can produce. Yes, the Herbert is a real keeper

Peter, if you're reading this... I read somwhere that the Herbert was named after your father. If that's correct I wonder... When you choose to name one of the most brutal beasts ever made in guitar amplification after your father, what's your father like
By the way... I'm still curious of the birth of my 001/787 Herbert, if you got the time .

EDIT: Well... I stand corrected by myself here. I turned the gain up to near half on ch 3 with my Dimebucker, and now that I've gotten a little more used to Herberts voicing this just sounded even more brutal, and not as compressed as I first thought. This truly is a metal beast, and I'm starting to wonder if my old Triple Recto really sounded as aggressive as I remember. Anyway... It really doesn't matter. I LOVE the rawness and brutality of the Herbert!!! I think at last I've found my amp.

Just one thing though... It's a quite loud "trafo sound" coming from the amp itself. Nothing through the speakers, just from the amp itself. Is this normal? My Engl is more quiet in that way.