Dual Recto parallel to series mod?

[facefirst]

Picked up an '06 Dual Recto last week. I plugged my Line 6 M13 (using the 4 cable method) into the Recto with the FX loop Send at 100% and the Mix at 50%. When I run even just the reverb (running the effects at 100% from the M13) it has an out of phase sound quality to it, plus it loses some volume and tone. I know this is a common occurrence, from what I've read. I have a few questions:

1. Is there a better way to set this up, namely the FX loop Send and Mix levels.
2. Will the Parallel to Series mod still allow me to engage/disengage the FX loop from the footswitch and use the Solo boost and Master volume controls?

With it set up the way it is, it makes it impossible to us an EQ in the loop. I'm kinda at a loss here over what I should do.

Thanks in advance.
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[glassjaw7]

I need to know this also. I just called Mike B at Boogie the other day, and he wasn't even sure if the mod takes away the footswitch functions. I may call back tomorrow to see if he figured it out.

 

[BrokenRomeo]

I am not 100% sure if the loop is still switchable, since I always leave mine on...I do know that the solo function and master volume still work as normal, if no effects device is connected, you have to patch through the send and return of the effects loop or you will get no signal with the loop turned on. The mod is easily reversed, it just bypasses the mix knob and takes all of 5 minutes or so. I think you can still turn the loop on and off...but not sure...again I always have mine on and use the master volume and boost functions.

 

[facefirst]

I am not 100% sure if the loop is still switchable, since I always leave mine on...I do know that the solo function and master volume still work as normal, if no effects device is connected, you have to patch through the send and return of the effects loop or you will get no signal with the loop turned on. The mod is easily reversed, it just bypasses the mix knob and takes all of 5 minutes or so. I think you can still turn the loop on and off...but not sure...again I always have mine on and use the master volume and boost functions.

Does making the loop a serial loop really make that much difference, tonewise? Any chance you could post a couple pics of your mod and maybe draw a diagram? If not, no worries. It would just be a huge help. Thanks!

 

[BrokenRomeo]

I had my tech do the mod, he got the diagram direct from Mesa...I think there are instructions for it on the Mesa Forum...my understanding is that even when set to 100% wet, the mix knob pot offers some resistance and does not allow all of the signal to flow through...I was having some phasing issues with modulation effects on my Gmajor and was advised to get the mod done. It literally to my tech all of 5 minutes to perform the mod, and it is easily reversible. The new Rectos are using a serial loop...

 

[facefirst]

I had my tech do the mod, he got the diagram direct from Mesa...I think there are instructions for it on the Mesa Forum...my understanding is that even when set to 100% wet, the mix knob pot offers some resistance and does not allow all of the signal to flow through...I was having some phasing issues with modulation effects on my Gmajor and was advised to get the mod done. It literally to my tech all of 5 minutes to perform the mod, and it is easily reversible. The new Rectos are using a serial loop...

Next time you're using your amp can you tell me if the loop is switchable or not?

 

[manyaxes]

You have to set the mix in the fx processor to 100% wet and set how much fx you want in the amps mix, adjust the send levels so that you don't overdrive the processor's input and you should be all set. But it will only work with simple time invariant fx such as delays, reverbs, etc. More complicated fx such as pitch shifters, phasers or distortions will always sound bad.

 

[facefirst]

You have to set the mix in the fx processor to 100% wet and set how much fx you want in the amps mix, adjust the send levels so that you don't overdrive the processor's input and you should be all set. But it will only work with simple time invariant fx such as delays, reverbs, etc. More complicated fx such as pitch shifters, phasers or distortions will always sound bad.

Even with no effects activated it still sucks the tone and kills the punch too much for my ears.

 

[Tawlks]

Picked up an '06 Dual Recto last week. I plugged my Line 6 M13 (using the 4 cable method) into the Recto with the FX loop Send at 100% and the Mix at 50%. When I run even just the reverb (running the effects at 100% from the M13) it has an out of phase sound quality to it, plus it loses some volume and tone. I know this is a common occurrence, from what I've read. I have a few questions:

1. Is there a better way to set this up, namely the FX loop Send and Mix levels.
2. Will the Parallel to Series mod still allow me to engage/disengage the FX loop from the footswitch and use the Solo boost and Master volume controls?

With it set up the way it is, it makes it impossible to us an EQ in the loop. I'm kinda at a loss here over what I should do.

Thanks in advance.
__________________

That avatar is amazing.

 

[manyaxes]

You have to set the mix in the fx processor to 100% wet and set how much fx you want in the amps mix, adjust the send levels so that you don't overdrive the processor's input and you should be all set. But it will only work with simple time invariant fx such as delays, reverbs, etc. More complicated fx such as pitch shifters, phasers or distortions will always sound bad.

Even with no effects activated it still sucks the tone and kills the punch too much for my ears.

Have you tried it with the settings I've said? With those, you should have no phasing at all with delays and reverbs. Do not overdo the mix, as you are mixing a completely wet signal. Begin with something like 5% or less. Otherwise, you are going to wash out the signal. Check the levels!

AFAIR, the recto loop circuit is always on, and when you actually switch it on with the footswitch, you are only adding on top of the dry signal what's inserted in the loop. In other words, if the loop degrades your tone, it is doing it always unless you take it out of the circuit with the channel loop selection knob behind the head. If there is signal degradation (apart from phasing issues), you cannot switch it on/off via the footswitch.

 

[facefirst]

You have to set the mix in the fx processor to 100% wet and set how much fx you want in the amps mix, adjust the send levels so that you don't overdrive the processor's input and you should be all set. But it will only work with simple time invariant fx such as delays, reverbs, etc. More complicated fx such as pitch shifters, phasers or distortions will always sound bad.

Even with no effects activated it still sucks the tone and kills the punch too much for my ears.

Have you tried it with the settings I've said? With those, you should have no phasing at all with delays and reverbs. Do not overdo the mix, as you are mixing a completely wet signal. Begin with something like 5% or less. Otherwise, you are going to wash out the signal. Check the levels!

AFAIR, the recto loop circuit is always on, and when you actually switch it on with the footswitch, you are only adding on top of the dry signal what's inserted in the loop. In other words, if the loop degrades your tone, it is doing it always unless you take it out of the circuit with the channel loop selection knob behind the head. If there is signal degradation (apart from phasing issues), you cannot switch it on/off via the footswitch.

Even with your settings there's still some phase issues.

 

[manyaxes]

The only thing I can think of is that your processor doesn't return a 100% wet signal, some original signal must bleed thru. Have you tried it first without the 4CM, that is, only using it in the loop? Start simple, try to set up just a reverb or a long delay. Does it still have issues?

 

[facefirst]

The only thing I can think of is that your processor doesn't return a 100% wet signal, some original signal must bleed thru. Have you tried it first without the 4CM, that is, only using it in the loop? Start simple, try to set up just a reverb or a long delay. Does it still have issues?

Yeah, the M13 doesn't have a dry kill feature. Why? I have no clue. Would make sense. When I run it with my Mark IV using the 4 cable method it works perfectly though. I think the Mark IV is a series loop though.

 

[WhammybarAllstar]

I had the same exact issues with my triple rec. and M13. I tried so many different things, did the series loop mod, still had phasing issues with delays etc. It happened both in 4CM, and just through the loop before and after the loop mod. I couldnt do anything more to resolve the issue and I stopped using the Mesa. Hope you are more successful with the problem. I have a RJM Mini Amp Gizmo and the cable FS for Mesa Recs if you're interested in midi switching channels and functions on your Mesa from the M13... this worked awesome at least.

 

[stratotone]

Another reason why I prefer my old Recto.

Pete

fyi, the parallel loops will screw up the tone no matter what you put in there. There's always just enough 'dry' tone in the loop to be off by a millisecond or two from the effects processor, giving you that flangey crap. I did the mod to my late model racktfier, and it helped, but my older one with the series loop sounds a lot better.

Mesa did a huge fail when they went to those parallel loops. Was a stupid move.

Pete

 

[EXPcustom]

The best solution I found to this problem was to get a older recto with a factory serial loop.

I will never buy a recto with a parallel loop ever again, the mod just kind of...meh.

 

[Shask]

I wonder why the mods dont work 100%. You would think it would be simple to just cut the dry signal. Just break the circuit.

 

[facefirst]

I wonder why the mods dont work 100%. You would think it would be simple to just cut the dry signal. Just break the circuit.

No clue.

I also have a Boss GT-8. Does anyone know if it has a dry kill option? If so, I'll use that with my Recto for effects and the M13 with my Mark IV, which has a serial loop.

 

[manyaxes]

Doesn't the new 2010 recto have a serial loop?

 

[facefirst]

Doesn't the new 2010 recto have a serial loop?

Yes