Educate me on "slaving" amps

[tweed]

What are the do's and dont's? And how exactly is it done?

 

[Gainfreak]

Steve F from VHT has a great definition. That said there are many ways to do it!!

The term simply refers to the practice of using one amp (typically a head or combo) as the "Master" amp or primary tone source, and another (typically a power amp) as the "Slave" amp which does the work of driving the speakers. Slaving allows you to generate just the right blend of preamp and power amp distortion in your Master amp. The resulting output is then attenuated down to a practical signal or line level which can then be routed to a switching system, mixer, effects processor, stereo power amp, recording console or any combination of the above. These kinds of applications are especially useful in live situations where it is desirable to reproduce a variety of different amplifier and distortion characteristics that may have been originally produced in a studio environment with multiple amps and speakers. It usually involves running the Master amplifier "full out" into an enclosed speaker or "Dummy Load" such as a high power resistor or power attenuator. A low level signal is then taken from the Master amp output using the "line output", an external signal attenuator (pad), or some type of speaker emulation device, which is then sent to an effects system, power amp and then to a pair of speaker cabinets. This is not generally considered to be the most practical of systems, but when done right, it's pretty hard to beat. Anyway, who cares about practical when your main objective is ultimate sonic satisfaction?

 

[Digital Jams]

This is the way I do it right now.....

MK IV speaker out to H&K Redbox Pro - one output to Hotplate - XLR to 1/4 to VHT 2/50/2 - 4x12 cab.

I throw my G-Major in before the VHT and now you can gun the MK and get it at low volumes but it sounds like the think is dimed. The cool thing about the redbox is that you are getting the entire power section of the amp as well.

I can also plug in direct to the board for direct recording because the redbox has a cab sim....not the best but pretty darn workable.

 

[Gainfreak]

This is the way I do it right now.....

MK IV speaker out to H&K Redbox Pro - one output to Hotplate - XLR to 1/4 to VHT 2/50/2 - 4x12 cab.

I throw my G-Major in before the VHT and now you can gun the MK and get it at low volumes but it sounds like the think is dimed. The cool thing about the redbox is that you are getting the entire power section of the amp as well.

I can also plug in direct to the board for direct recording because the redbox has a cab sim....not the best but pretty darn workable.

The slave out on the MKIV will do the same thing Bro. it was designed to capture the preamp and poweramp section of the amp.

This is how I slave my amps at home.

MKIV or MKIII into a dummy load (I use and axetrak or Marshall SE-100)
I gun the shit out of the Volume until I get the "TONE"

I take the slave or Direct out of the Boogie and I send that signal to my effects. The effects then go out stereo into a Poweramp (Which I don't have at the moment so I use either my ENGL or the boogie head Im not using for the master amp)
Then out to my Cabs. I don't care to use a dry cab so I mix in the effects levels and it sounds MASSIVE. This is the only way I would play live if I were in an original band. I never used it for covers though.... to overkill!!

 

[Digital Jams]

This is the way I do it right now.....

MK IV speaker out to H&K Redbox Pro - one output to Hotplate - XLR to 1/4 to VHT 2/50/2 - 4x12 cab.

I throw my G-Major in before the VHT and now you can gun the MK and get it at low volumes but it sounds like the think is dimed. The cool thing about the redbox is that you are getting the entire power section of the amp as well.

I can also plug in direct to the board for direct recording because the redbox has a cab sim....not the best but pretty darn workable.

The slave out on the MKIV will do the same thing Bro. it was designed to capture the preamp and poweramp section of the amp.

This is how I slave my amps at home.

MKIV or MKIII into a dummy load (I use and axetrak or Marshall SE-100)
I gun the shit out of the Volume until I get the "TONE"

I take the slave or Direct out of the Boogie and I send that signal to my effects. The effects then go out stereo into a Poweramp (Which I don't have at the moment so I use either my ENGL or the boogie head Im not using for the master amp)
Then out to my Cabs. I don't care to use a dry cab so I mic in the effects levels and it sounds MASSIVE. This is the only way I would play live if I were in an original band. I never used it for covers though.... to overkill!!

Doh

I used this rig when I had the Sabre and was not aware that the slave out of the boogie had the power section!!!!!

 

[Oblivion DC]

This is the way I do it right now.....

MK IV speaker out to H&K Redbox Pro - one output to Hotplate - XLR to 1/4 to VHT 2/50/2 - 4x12 cab.

I throw my G-Major in before the VHT and now you can gun the MK and get it at low volumes but it sounds like the think is dimed. The cool thing about the redbox is that you are getting the entire power section of the amp as well.

I can also plug in direct to the board for direct recording because the redbox has a cab sim....not the best but pretty darn workable.

So are you using the hotplate as a load and a tap? What role is the redbox pro playing in your setup?

/not being critical, just confused

 

[Gainfreak]

This is the way I do it right now.....

MK IV speaker out to H&K Redbox Pro - one output to Hotplate - XLR to 1/4 to VHT 2/50/2 - 4x12 cab.

I throw my G-Major in before the VHT and now you can gun the MK and get it at low volumes but it sounds like the think is dimed. The cool thing about the redbox is that you are getting the entire power section of the amp as well.

I can also plug in direct to the board for direct recording because the redbox has a cab sim....not the best but pretty darn workable.

The slave out on the MKIV will do the same thing Bro. it was designed to capture the preamp and poweramp section of the amp.

This is how I slave my amps at home.

MKIV or MKIII into a dummy load (I use and axetrak or Marshall SE-100)
I gun the shit out of the Volume until I get the "TONE"

I take the slave or Direct out of the Boogie and I send that signal to my effects. The effects then go out stereo into a Poweramp (Which I don't have at the moment so I use either my ENGL or the boogie head Im not using for the master amp)
Then out to my Cabs. I don't care to use a dry cab so I mic in the effects levels and it sounds MASSIVE. This is the only way I would play live if I were in an original band. I never used it for covers though.... to overkill!!

Doh

I used this rig when I had the Sabre and was not aware that the slave out of the boogie had the power section!!!!!

yeah Bro!! Randall Smith did a great job with the slave out on that amp!! They've got ya covered!!
FWIW, I tried using the output of my Marshall SE-100, The Boogies slave tap and the effects send and all 3 will give you a different tone!! The best sounding one to my ears was definitely the slave out.

The SE-100 is the whole amp tone but darkened up the tone a lot and the effects send was the preamp only. The Slave out captured the whole amp and it sounded the best plus you can control how hard the poweramp/effects will be hit by the level knob on the back.

 

[griff10672]

Steve F from VHT has a great definition. That said there are many ways to do it!!

The term simply refers to the practice of using one amp (typically a head or combo) as the "Master" amp or primary tone source, and another (typically a power amp) as the "Slave" amp which does the work of driving the speakers. Slaving allows you to generate just the right blend of preamp and power amp distortion in your Master amp. The resulting output is then attenuated down to a practical signal or line level which can then be routed to a switching system, mixer, effects processor, stereo power amp, recording console or any combination of the above. These kinds of applications are especially useful in live situations where it is desirable to reproduce a variety of different amplifier and distortion characteristics that may have been originally produced in a studio environment with multiple amps and speakers. It usually involves running the Master amplifier "full out" into an enclosed speaker or "Dummy Load" such as a high power resistor or power attenuator. A low level signal is then taken from the Master amp output using the "line output", an external signal attenuator (pad), or some type of speaker emulation device, which is then sent to an effects system, power amp and then to a pair of speaker cabinets. This is not generally considered to be the most practical of systems, but when done right, it's pretty hard to beat. Anyway, who cares about practical when your main objective is ultimate sonic satisfaction?

Nice post to a question I've always wanted to ask ...

 

[Digital Jams]

This is the way I do it right now.....

MK IV speaker out to H&K Redbox Pro - one output to Hotplate - XLR to 1/4 to VHT 2/50/2 - 4x12 cab.

I throw my G-Major in before the VHT and now you can gun the MK and get it at low volumes but it sounds like the think is dimed. The cool thing about the redbox is that you are getting the entire power section of the amp as well.

I can also plug in direct to the board for direct recording because the redbox has a cab sim....not the best but pretty darn workable.

So are you using the hotplate as a load and a tap? What role is the redbox pro playing in your setup?

/not being critical, just confused

Just the load part is used, the Redbox is the tap. I use the redbox because I can go direct to the board if need be. YOu could just get away with just the Hotplate.

 

[Gainfreak]

Steve F from VHT has a great definition. That said there are many ways to do it!!

The term simply refers to the practice of using one amp (typically a head or combo) as the "Master" amp or primary tone source, and another (typically a power amp) as the "Slave" amp which does the work of driving the speakers. Slaving allows you to generate just the right blend of preamp and power amp distortion in your Master amp. The resulting output is then attenuated down to a practical signal or line level which can then be routed to a switching system, mixer, effects processor, stereo power amp, recording console or any combination of the above. These kinds of applications are especially useful in live situations where it is desirable to reproduce a variety of different amplifier and distortion characteristics that may have been originally produced in a studio environment with multiple amps and speakers. It usually involves running the Master amplifier "full out" into an enclosed speaker or "Dummy Load" such as a high power resistor or power attenuator. A low level signal is then taken from the Master amp output using the "line output", an external signal attenuator (pad), or some type of speaker emulation device, which is then sent to an effects system, power amp and then to a pair of speaker cabinets. This is not generally considered to be the most practical of systems, but when done right, it's pretty hard to beat. Anyway, who cares about practical when your main objective is ultimate sonic satisfaction?

Nice post to a question I've always wanted to ask ...

Thanks!

I have been slaving amps for years. It serves many purposes in that you can tame the volume on a NMV amp that needs to be cranked or you can take a lower wattage amp and greatly amplify the volume. They key is to Crank the NMV or low wattage amp to its sweet spot and then re-amplify it so that you can control the volume at the slave. The other added benifit is if you are a person who uses effects there is no cleaner way to go IMHO. Slaving bumps the signal from your master amp to line level ,and when you send that signal to your effects, its crystal clear!! Much clearer then any effects loop that I have used.

 

[Gainfreak]

This is the way I do it right now.....

MK IV speaker out to H&K Redbox Pro - one output to Hotplate - XLR to 1/4 to VHT 2/50/2 - 4x12 cab.

I throw my G-Major in before the VHT and now you can gun the MK and get it at low volumes but it sounds like the think is dimed. The cool thing about the redbox is that you are getting the entire power section of the amp as well.

I can also plug in direct to the board for direct recording because the redbox has a cab sim....not the best but pretty darn workable.

So are you using the hotplate as a load and a tap? What role is the redbox pro playing in your setup?

/not being critical, just confused

Just the load part is used, the Redbox is the tap. I use the redbox because I can go direct to the board if need be. YOu could just get away with just the Hotplate.

you could also go to the board with the recording out of the boog bro!!

 

[thiswaythatway]

Steve F from VHT has a great definition. That said there are many ways to do it!!

The term simply refers to the practice of using one amp (typically a head or combo) as the "Master" amp or primary tone source, and another (typically a power amp) as the "Slave" amp which does the work of driving the speakers. Slaving allows you to generate just the right blend of preamp and power amp distortion in your Master amp. The resulting output is then attenuated down to a practical signal or line level which can then be routed to a switching system, mixer, effects processor, stereo power amp, recording console or any combination of the above. These kinds of applications are especially useful in live situations where it is desirable to reproduce a variety of different amplifier and distortion characteristics that may have been originally produced in a studio environment with multiple amps and speakers. It usually involves running the Master amplifier "full out" into an enclosed speaker or "Dummy Load" such as a high power resistor or power attenuator. A low level signal is then taken from the Master amp output using the "line output", an external signal attenuator (pad), or some type of speaker emulation device, which is then sent to an effects system, power amp and then to a pair of speaker cabinets. This is not generally considered to be the most practical of systems, but when done right, it's pretty hard to beat. Anyway, who cares about practical when your main objective is ultimate sonic satisfaction?

Nice post to a question I've always wanted to ask ...

Thanks!

I have been slaving amps for years. It serves many purposes in that you can tame the volume on a NMV amp that needs to be cranked or you can take a lower wattage amp and greatly amplify the volume. They key is to Crank the NMV or low wattage amp to its sweet spot and then re-amplify it so that you can control the volume at the slave. The other added benifit is if you are a person who uses effects there is no cleaner way to go IMHO. Slaving bumps the signal from your master amp to line level ,and when you send that signal to your effects, its crystal clear!! Much clearer then any effects loop that I have used.

In a few weeks I'll have a MarkIII, IV. And 2 cabs, the 2x12 and Thiele 1x12. I guess i can slave them together but to get a stereo setup like you have i would need a stereo power amp?

 

[Gainfreak]

In a few weeks I'll have a MarkIII, IV. And 2 cabs, the 2x12 and Thiele 1x12. I guess i can slave them together but to get a stereo setup like you have i would need a stereo power amp?

Well if you want it to be stereo, you will need 3 speakers cabs or a dummy load. If you have this then your are set. No need for a poweramp.

Figure out which amp you want to be the main amp and then take the slave out of that amp and send it to the return of your slave amp. Your slave head would be connected to the 2 speaker cabs. No need to have a poweramp when you have two amps.. the problem is that you'll need another cab or dummy load.

You can control the volume with the slave outs send.

 

[jrgrady]

What kind of poweramps do you guys recommend for slaving, solid state or tube? Based on some of the research I've done on the topic, it sounds like a solid state poweramp might be a better choice since you won't have the tubes of the poweramp coloring the tone of the master amp. Any truth to that? Does anyone have any specific poweramps that you could recommend for this application?

 

[mysticaxe]

I asked about this stuff a while ago and was recommended the stereo Carvin solid state power amps (don't remember which one, but they went for about $150 used). I ended up simplifying the rig, so I didn't go that route.

 

[Gainfreak]

What kind of poweramps do you guys recommend for slaving, solid state or tube? Based on some of the research I've done on the topic, it sounds like a solid state poweramp might be a better choice since you won't have the tubes of the poweramp coloring the tone of the master amp. Any truth to that? Does anyone have any specific poweramps that you could recommend for this application?

I think that is one of the myths that just won't die!! I have tried Solid state power-amps ranging from the cleanest of clean to the cheapest of cheap and Tube power-amps sound much better and react much better IMHO.
It is my opinion that most people are quoting EVH when he said that he prefered the solid state H&H poweramps to a tube poweramp for his slaving. What most people Don't know is that most H&H poweramps use mosfet technology.....MOSFET is a circuit that tries to react like a tube... so I ask you.. Why use a solid state poweramp that tries to mimick tubes when you can use the real thing?
Now with that said, The best poweramps that I have used for slaving were the Boogie Strategy 400, Boogie 2:90 and any of the VHT Poweramps. If you want to do it on the cheap, The Peavey 50/50 is a great bang for the buck poweramp that can be used for slaving.

These are just my findings so YYMV!!!

I hope this helps

Ralph

 

[tweed]

What kind of poweramps do you guys recommend for slaving, solid state or tube? Based on some of the research I've done on the topic, it sounds like a solid state poweramp might be a better choice since you won't have the tubes of the poweramp coloring the tone of the master amp. Any truth to that? Does anyone have any specific poweramps that you could recommend for this application?

I think that is one of the myths that just won't die!! I have tried Solid state power-amps ranging from the cleanest of clean to the cheapest of cheap and Tube power-amps sound much better and react much better IMHO.
It is my opinion that most people are quoting EVH when he said that he prefered the solid state H&H poweramps to a tube poweramp for his slaving. What most people Don't know is that most H&H poweramps use mosfet technology.....MOSFET is a circuit that tries to react like a tube... so I ask you.. Why use a solid state poweramp that tries to mimick tubes when you can use the real thing?
Now with that said, The best poweramps that I have used for slaving were the Boogie Strategy 400, Boogie 2:90 and any of the VHT Poweramps. If you want to do it on the cheap, The Peavey 50/50 is a great bang for the buck poweramp that can be used for slaving.

These are just my findings so YYMV!!!

I hope this helps

Ralph

It didn't help for shit!!!!

All its doing is making me wonder how much I can get for internal organs on Ebay so I can afford all this!!!

Thanks Francis!!!!

 

[Gainfreak]

It didn't help for shit!!!!

All its doing is making me wonder how much I can get for internal organs on Ebay so I can afford all this!!!

Thanks Francis!!!!

Well at least put me down for a Kidney!! I'm down one!!

 

[tweed]

It didn't help for shit!!!!

All its doing is making me wonder how much I can get for internal organs on Ebay so I can afford all this!!!

Thanks Francis!!!!

Well at least put me down for a Kidney!! I'm down one!!

No problem bro!!

Im glad im heading out for the weekend. Otherwise I may be shopping ebay for power amps you bastard. LOL!!

 

[Gainfreak]

It didn't help for shit!!!!

All its doing is making me wonder how much I can get for internal organs on Ebay so I can afford all this!!!

Thanks Francis!!!!

Well at least put me down for a Kidney!! I'm down one!!

No problem bro!!

Im glad im heading out for the weekend. Otherwise I may be shopping ebay for power amps you bastard. LOL!!

Do you have an attenuator/ Dummy load