Egnater friends! Please help me choose an acoustic!

[Kiteboarder]

This is the thread. I'd really appreciate your comments...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=50287&p=579045#p579045

-Danny

 

[Beagle1]

I like my Taylor 714 and my two Martin OM's, but I think the really nice guitars from both Taylor and Martin start around $2-2.5K and go up from there. The lower end offerings from both companies are OK, but not great.

In your price range, check out Larrivee...hand made in Canada. Great guitars for the money! Throw a DTAR Multisource pickup system in there and you will have a killer acoustic that sounds great on stage or in the studio.

Whatever acoustic you buy, I would advise getting something without a pickup system and then add a pickup later. The after-market systems in general sound much better than the built-in systems and you won't end up with a big hole in the side of your guitar should you decide to change the pickup system down the road.

 

[Kiteboarder]

Thanks for the tip. It makes total sense. I'm just not comfortable have a guitar like that modded. An amp will most likely go up in price, a guitar, well no. I did check out the multi-source pickup you recommend.

I'm thinking of upgrading from my initial choice of a Taylor 214CE and getting a 310CE or a 314CE instead. There's a rebate at the moment, so I'll be getting solid wood and made in USA for about $400 more than the 214. I think it's a good deal.

 

[Beagle1]

Adding a pickup to an acoustic is not like modding an amp or anything. Any decent luthier should be able to install most of the after-market pickups in an acoustic. In general, this does not decrease the value of an acoustic, so long as the pickup doesn't involve drilling holes in the side of the guitar...and most of the good ones these days don't require much more than enlarging the endpin to accommodate a quarter inch jack and (if it's an undersaddle pickup) drilling a small hole in the saddle for the pickup. DTAR, B-Band A2.2, Baggs iMix, Fishman Infinity, K&K...all those systems can be easily removed and replaced with something else.

Not so the Taylor ES because of the huge endpin hole it leaves, and the three holes for volume and tone controls. Have you plugged in the Taylors with the ES electronics and played them through an amp or PA? A lot of guys absolutely hate the basic tone quality of the ES (very electric sounding pickup) and think Taylor made a huge mistake with this system. Over on the Acoustic Guitar Forum it seems like every week there is some guy wanting to know how to make the ES in his Taylor sound better. If you like the ES, that's cool...it is very resistant to feedback. Just be aware that if you end up getting sick of the ES, you're stuck with it.

 

[Kiteboarder]

Thanks for all the advice Beagle, much appreciated! So, if you consider the sound of the Taylor ES not that great, what would you say about the AURA system in some of the Martins, or Fishman system in the Martin 16GTE-Premium with the condenser mic that can be blended with the piezos?

 

[graymatter]

I can Second the Larrivee. I've been using a D-03R Both in the studio and Live for a few years and it's a killer guitar
and very reasonably priced. I had an LR Baggs element pup installed and use their Para D.I.....great sounding combo.

 

[guitarslinger]

I know everybody hates Ovation, but my USA Longneck is one of the biggest-sounding plugged in acoustic tones I've EVER heard. I've probably played 200 gigs on mine, and it's been beyond perfect the entire time. It sounds SO big, I can use a plain G string, and still have it fill the entire mix. Unbelievable axe. It's the only piece of equipment that has paid for itself ten times over, at least.

 

[Beagle1]

Thanks for all the advice Beagle, much appreciated! So, if you consider the sound of the Taylor ES not that great, what would you say about the AURA system in some of the Martins, or Fishman system in the Martin 16GTE-Premium with the condenser mic that can be blended with the piezos?

For me personally, I would prefer the Aura system over the Taylor ES. The Aura to my ears can sound a bit over-processed when you crank up the blend towards the digital image side, but in a live setting and with just a bit of the digital image mixed in, the Aura can sound pretty good. The Fishman systems with the built-in condenser mics sound OK, but the mics are so prone to feedback that they're almost useless. That's the big advantage of the DTAR Multisource because the mic in that system is specifically designed to avoid feedback. At any rate, you should test all the systems through an amp or PA if you're wanting a guitar with built-in electronics...maybe you'll end up loving the ES and hating the Aura! A lot of it does just boil down to personal tastes.

One last thing to keep in mind with Martin vs Taylor...a lot of guys that play Martins in the store will think the action is too high and that they don't play as easily as a Taylor. It is true that most Taylors come out of the factory with great, easy playing setups. With Martin, they take a different approach and set the guitar for a medium action out of the factory (usually over 3/32 on the low E at the 12th fret). Some bluegrass players like high action to get more tone and sustain out of the guitar, but for many guys used to playing Strats or Les Pauls, this is too high. Any decent luthier can adjust the action so the Martin will play easier like the Taylors...just takes a little setup work.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

One last thing to keep in mind with Martin vs Taylor...a lot of guys that play Martins in the store will think the action is too high and that they don't play as easily as a Taylor. It is true that most Taylors come out of the factory with great, easy playing setups. With Martin, they take a different approach and set the guitar for a medium action out of the factory (usually over 3/32 on the low E at the 12th fret). Some bluegrass players like high action to get more tone and sustain out of the guitar, but for many guys used to playing Strats or Les Pauls, this is too high. Any decent luthier can adjust the action so the Martin will play easier like the Taylors...just takes a little setup work.

This is absolutely true, but keep something in mind: If you lighten up the action you are going to sacrifice some of the tone, projection, and sustain. Properly set up up, higher action will give you less buzzes, more volume, and a richer tone.

An acoustic is an acoustic. It shouldn't be an electric. I kind of "grew up" on a mid-70's Martin D-18 that had a neck like a tree trunk. I loved it, and to this day I have superior hand strength because of that. I wish I still had that guitar.

I think an acoustic player is better off letting the guitar be what it is and adjusting to it, rather than making the guitar adjust to them just to make it easier, and making the acoustic a little more like an electric, which is exactly what it isn't- I think it is a fundamentally different beast.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Kiteboarder]

Cool guys, thanks for the tips and all of the recommendations. I think I've narrowed down the search to a Taylor 310 or 314, or one of the similar priced Martins with Aura. I'm going to stop by a local shop and compare them. I tried both of them acoustically and I know I'll be happy with either. But, I want to go compare the electronics before I buy.

After that, I'll decide where to buy it and whether to buy one new or used depending on what I can find. I was going to pull the trigger yesterday and order one through AMS in payments, but I decided to not rush it. I don't have a proper acoustic at the moment, but I have plenty of electrics to have fun on, so there's no need to rush!

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

I have been getting into used stuff lately. Due to the tough economy there are a lot of good deals out there if you have some money to spend.

This is where eBay and the Internet are fabulous. With a little patience and research, you can really use comptetive pressure to your advantage- Why pay the local guy $1000.00 if there is guy in another state willing to sell the same thing for $850.00 and you are willing to wait?

Good luck- Have fun!

 

[EWSEthan]

Im actually probably selling my Taylor 410 FYI. It sounds as great as ever and is in excellent shape. But these days Im looking for do more live acoustic playing and I want a cutaway and smaller body shape. So, Im probably going to replace it with a 414CE.

Taylor 400 series is my absolute favorite. Great playing and very full yet crisp sounding guitars. Beautiful presence and sparkle. Those ovangkol sides are the BOMB.

 

[Kiteboarder]

Hi Matt, how much? PM me... Still, a cutaway has been at the top of the specs list since day one of research. I don't mind the dreadnought size though. But the lack of cutaway does concern me.

 

[aeroic]

Definitely will never part w/ my Taylor 914ce. Especially since I couldn't replace it for the $ I paid for it! I got a deal on it...for $1300 shipped to me in great condition. After the fact, I learned the friend of a friend I bought it off of was an "aspiring" meth addict. Who's now not a friend of a friend anymore because of his drug addiction.

Eric

 

[RockStarNick]

I have a 414, and will agree that Ovangkal is incredible.

 

[Kiteboarder]

I remember playing a 312 in Maui. A good friend of mine's guitar. She's small, so the reduced size of the Grand Concert 312 suits her well. I really liked the way it plays and sounds though. But I would go with something bigger for sure.

Eric, wow! That's cheap! Lucky you on that one!

Nick: I've been doing the research, but Ovan... what??!!! I guess I haven't gotten that far!

By the way guys, I secured a very nice practice studio today! News on new music and the band will be coming soon!

 

[aeroic]

I remember playing a 312 in Maui. A good friend of mine's guitar. She's small, so the reduced size of the Grand Concert 312 suits her well. I really liked the way it plays and sounds though. But I would go with something bigger for sure.

Eric, wow! That's cheap! Lucky you on that one!

Nick: I've been doing the research, but Ovan... what??!!! I guess I haven't gotten that far!

By the way guys, I secured a very nice practice studio today! News on new music and the band will be coming soon!

I really like the Taylor x14ce models above and including the 414. They are definitely awesome sounding, very warm, big tone, with lots of clarity.

Also, the Breedlove line is really good too. I've owned some middle of the road -> higher end guitars made by them and they all are really good. One of the most interesting guitars I owned was a Rainsong though. It was awesome sounding, and great if you play in a lot in an area that has climate changes. They aren't cheap, but the sound great!

Eric

 

[marvcus]

I have been exposed to lots of Martins and haven't really played that many Taylors (although the ones I played have been nice).
Seagull is also a good option if you don't care about the solid sides/back. I believe the top is cedar and back/sides are wild cherry.
Great bang for the buck. They are more midrangey where the Martins are a bit warmer.

Also, the Martin D-15 is a great sleeper guitar--kinda ugly since it's all mahogany, but it plays and sounds great.

My be-all end-all would be the Martin D-18V. Not sure if they still make them (haven't done my research lately) but
they are fantastic guitars.

+1 on the action. I prefer higher action on the acoustic to let the notes ring/sustain. But my idea of low action is probably
a bit higher than some folks, as well. I don't like my electric's strings breathing on the frets.

Anyway, good luck in your search. I have a Seagull S6C that I use as a "beater"; it follows me around the house.

 

[Kiteboarder]

Well, even on an electric, you get more tone and sustain with higher action. But, I'm a bit of a wimp. It'll sound like crap if I can't fret! So, for me, I get better tone out of lower action, simply because I'll be fretting much more efficiently.

 

[marvcus]

Well, even on an electric, you get more tone and sustain with higher action. But, I'm a bit of a wimp. It'll sound like crap if I can't fret! So, for me, I get better tone out of lower action, simply because I'll be fretting much more efficiently.

Oh yeah, I hear ya. I was just agreeing/reiterating that the Martin action can be easily adjusted by sanding down the saddle. Make sure whatever you get you get
an original hardshell case. Martin & Taylor cases, especially, smell good when you open 'em.