Egnater Renegade 1x12 Combo used as a head only ....

[dieselmx]

Hey guys,

I have the Egnater Renegade 1x12 combo amp and was looking to get either a 2x12 or 4x12 extension to run it through. Can you connect this to run like a head through the 2 or 4x12, not using the 1x12 ... or do you set it up with the all 3 or 5 speakers? How would this work? I would imagine that you can use it just like the head version right or no?

I want to get the either:
Egnater Tourmaster-412A Angled Guitar Speaker Cabinet (4x12 in.)
or
Egnater Tourmaster-212X Guitar Speaker Cabinet

Bascially just use the combo for home and add the extension for live use. Also, do you think I would notice a difference in sound at all using the 2x12 or 4x12? Looking for a bigger sound than just the one speaker.

 

[broknstuff]

The bigger cabinets and more speakers will definitely give you that bigger sound. Which Egnater amp are you using? And what's the back panel look like on your combo?

Sometimes with combo amps you can take the "head part" can disconnect the internal speaker, but without knowing the amp I can't say how to do that or if it's possible. Sometimes people get an amp head case which they can slide the head part of their combo amp into (it might be upside down vs a "normal amp head" but it'll still work.

If you can't disconnect the internal speaker, it would seem like carrying the combo + a 4x12 + a 2x12 would be a lot. I tried to get a look at what the back panel is for the 4x12 and 2x12 online but didn't find a close up on the site (could be there, I just probably didn't search hard enough). If both of those cabs have speaker through or parallel or series outs, then you could technically run all 3 at once (the combo, 4x12 and 2x12) if the impedance matching is right. So it may be possible, but again that'd be a lot to haul to a gig.

If you can provide more info on the amp head or what the back panel looks like we can take it from there. I don't know which amp it is, but maybe someone with the same one can help out too.

 

[dieselmx]

I have the Renegade 1x12 pics below .....

Connected to the amp now is a wire into the MAIN (USE FIRST) from the inside that i cant see.

this would be the back of the 2x12 Tourmaster that it woukd run into ...

=

 

[broknstuff]

Ah okay, I re-read your post. I originally thought you wanted to use both the combo speaker, the 2x12 and the 4x12 at the same time. Now I realize you only want to see if you can just use the amp part of your combo, disable your speaker, and then use a 2x12 OR a 4x12 instead. Correct?

If that's right, yeah you can do that no problem. While the amp is off, unplug the speaker cable that is currently plugged into the "MAIN, USE FIRST" outlet. The cable will probably just dangle, make sure you can still get to it later on for when you want to go back to using it as a combo configuration.

Next, using a SPEAKER CABLE (and it must be a speaker cable, not an instrument cable, make sure it is specifically designed for speaker level signal) attach that to the "MAIN, USE FIRST" part of the renegade, and the other end to the 2x12 or 4x12. Match the impedance setting on the back of the amp (4ohms, 8ohms 16ohms), with that of the cabinet. I believe the 2x12 is 8 ohms if I'm not mistaken, but check first.

Once everything is securely plugged in, you can now turn your amp on like normal, wait for it to warm up, and try it out.

This should work, but if for live you want to do the same thing but not have to carry around the whole combo if you're just going to be using the head, you may want to see if you can get a head case and slide amp part of the combo into that, that way it's less bulk and weight to travel with. Not sure if that's available, but if not it should be fairly straight forward to have one made I would imagine.

I probably won't be on for a few days, but if want to do something like use the combo AND an extension cabinet, you can do that too. The thing you have to first see what impedance the internal speaker is, and what impedance the external speaker is before you do so. I'll gladly help you out with that but at the moment I have to run. In the mean time, just google speaker impedance and okay mismatch.

I guess I should say, this should all work in theory since the combo is just an amp head with a speaker cabinet all in one large enclosure. I assume no responsibility if something goes wrong!

 

[dgaemc2]

Yes, you can definitely do this.....and yes, plugging into even the 212 cab will give you a much bigger sound and into a 412 cab a much much bigger sound IMO.

I agree with brokenstuff's guidance completely. Unplug your internal speaker cable....plug a good quality speaker cable from the "use this first" jack of the amp into the 8 ohm jack of the 212 cab and set the amp impedence toggle to 8 ohm. If you opt for the 412 cab, do the same thing, but plug a speaker cable from the "use this first" jack of the amp into the 4 ohm jack of the 412 cab and set the amp impedence toggle to 4 ohm.

Just be sure to remember to switch the amp impedence back to 16 ohm whenever you desire switching back to the combo using its internal speaker stand alone.

Hope this helps and best of luck!

 

[dieselmx]

thanks for the help guys. ... I'm curious to hear what this sounds like! thanks again for all the help! I will let you know how it goes.

 

[dgaemc2]

I believe that you will find connecting your 112 Renegade to the 212 cab will sound huge.....much like my 212 combo which I really love!!

If possible, you might opt to take your amp to a music store that carries Egnater amps and do a test with the 212 cab and the 412 cab using your combo.

IMO, the 212 sound from the Renegade is huge, and will probably fulfill your desires nicely without having to lug around a very heavy 412 cab. Just a thought to consider.

Best of luck, and let us know what you think.....

 

[dieselmx]

I believe that you will find connecting your 112 Renegade to the 212 cab will sound huge.....much like my 212 combo which I really love!!

If possible, you might opt to take your amp to a music store that carries Egnater amps and do a test with the 212 cab and the 412 cab using your combo.

IMO, the 212 sound from the Renegade is huge, and will probably fulfill your desires nicely without having to lug around a very heavy 412 cab. Just a thought to consider.

Best of luck, and let us know what you think.....

Really? so you think I will notice that big of a difference with only the 2x12? So i would only use the 2x12 then right? In essence, I would only be gaining 1 more speaker? or use all 3 at once? What would you recommend?

I love the sound of the 1 speaker, so I am guessing it can only sound better with more speakers!

My ultimate goal would be to get the 2x12 .. but I already have 1x12 and would lose money on the deal only to gain 1 speaker if i did a trade or something.

 

[broknstuff]

Really? so you think I will notice that big of a difference with only the 2x12? So i would only use the 2x12 then right? In essence, I would only be gaining 1 more speaker? or use all 3 at once? What would you recommend?

I love the sound of the 1 speaker, so I am guessing it can only sound better with more speakers!

My ultimate goal would be to get the 2x12 .. but I already have 1x12 and would lose money on the deal only to gain 1 speaker if i did a trade or something.

You could use the 1x12 with the 2x12, but you have to make sure you appropriately set the inpedence match. For example, if you use 2 8ohm cabinets, then you have to set the amp to 4 ohms.

Resistance/impedance equation is for parallel circuits is: 1/total R = (1/resistance of 1st cabinet) + 1/(resistance of second cabinet). So if the cabinets are the same ohms, the equation just translates to dividing that number by 2.

So if the egnater speaker is 8ohms, then just set the amp to 4 ohms, and leave the combo speaker connected and add the cabinet (again, all this while it's off). Now, if the egnater speaker is 16 ohms, and the cabinet is 8ohms, then plugging it into the above equation the total resistance is 5.33 ohms. Since that's not one of the three options you have, you have to run a "safe mismatch". In this case you would run into the 4ohm output of the amp, because a "safe mismatch" is when the cabinet ohm rate is a higher number than the amplifiers. An UNSAFE (ie. don't do it) is when the cabinet ohms is a lower number. Examples:

Safe mismatch: 4 ohm amp output ----> 8 ohm cabinet
UNSAFE mismatch: 8 ohm amp output ---> 4 ohm cabinet.

Typically they say it's safe to mismatch one step higher, i.e. go for the closest value you can while still following the safe mismatch rule.

It may sound different running it this way, and at different ohms. I've heard people used to do safe mismatches sometimes to alter the sound a bit, but I just run it the way it's meant to be.

The egnater 2x12 is a great cab, but will sound different than a 4x12. You may prefer one or the other. The 2x12 is my favorite 2x12, but 4 speakers + more space is going to sound different. Not saying better or worse, because its all just preference. If you can, I suggest trying it out first, but either way is going to sound great and definitely bigger.

If you just want to run the combo as a head and only use the bigger, then I would say the best solution would be to get a head case for it and move the amp into that when you are using it for a show to cut down on weight and bulk. If you're using the combo with another cabinet, then just follow the instructions above.

(btw, for series resistance, it's just add them up: R = resistance1+resistance2+resistance 3 etc. When you use both the outputs of an amp head, you are adding them in parallel, like explained above. Sometimes cabinets that have a "speaker through" will say if it's in parallel or series so you know how to add up the total resistance.

 

[dgaemc2]

dieselmix,

Yes, I do feel there is a noticeably bigger or (fuller more 3 dimensional sound might be a better way of describing it) out of the 212 combo compared to the 112 combo, but that is just my opinion. You already like you 112 combo and will be using stand alone at times which is great and fine.

I have never played the Renegade through a 412 cab.......mainly because I refuse to haul a 412 cab around to gigs. Also, I only use the record out feature of the Renegade (I do not mic the cab) directly to the board with great results so my 212 combo really just acts as my monitor to hear myself. I can hear myself just fine and it sounds great to my ears.

My suggestion would be to go to a local music store and play through the head and both of the cabs you are considering. This will allow you to know which you would prefer when using your 112 combo as a head....because the circuitry of the combo and head are identical. There really isn't any need to take your combo into the store to audition the cabs as I had previously suggested.

I hope this helps, and best of luck!

 

[dieselmx]

dieselmix,

Yes, I do feel there is a noticeably bigger or (fuller more 3 dimensional sound might be a better way of describing it) out of the 212 combo compared to the 112 combo, but that is just my opinion. You already like you 112 combo and will be using stand alone at times which is great and fine.

My suggestion would be to go to a local music store and play through the head and both of the cabs you are considering. This will allow you to know which you would prefer when using your 112 combo as a head....because the circuitry of the combo and head are identical. There really isn't any need to take your combo into the store to audition the cabs as I had previously suggested.

I hope this helps, and best of luck!

Good suggestion man! Thanks I will try. I would love to hear the thing out of a 4x12. I think the 1x12 sounds great. It should be huge through a 4x12. Thanks!