EMG81: love/hate relationship

[valve]

Always keep some EMG around, but they are far from my favorite pickups (especially don't like the feel).
They are just a mid hump to my ears, but if you EQ the amp accordingly it makes for a tight and thick sound.
The distortion characteristics is very fine grained, not rough like for example a neck PU normally is.
Also compared to passive Bridge Humbuckers, it has a similiar effect, just not as drastic.

I think this is just because of the highpass characteristic of the classic EMG series.
The reduced bass in the gain stages of an amp, just makes for a smoother, less rough distortion.

So wouldn't i get the same effect, if i build in a series cap in my passive guitars?
Or is it the more or less missing resonance peak of the EMG81/85?

 

[Bardagh]

Always keep some EMG around, but they are far from my favorite pickups (especially don't like the feel).
They are just a mid hump to my ears, but if you EQ the amp accordingly it makes for a tight and thick sound.
The distortion characteristics is very fine grained, not rough like for example a neck PU normally is.
Also compared to passive Bridge Humbuckers, it has a similiar effect, just not as drastic.

I think this is just because of the highpass characteristic of the classic EMG series.
The reduced bass in the gain stages of an amp, just makes for a smoother, less rough distortion.

So wouldn't i get the same effect, if i build in a series cap in my passive guitars?
Or is it the more or less missing resonance peak of the EMG81/85?

No, you won’t get the same effect because the EMG 81’s internal preamp is not just a high pass filter. There’s a lot more going on there that contributes to the end tone. But yeah the EQ profile of the 81 is kind of a narrow mid peak signal compared to any passive pickup.

I used them almost exclusively back in the late 90’s/early 2000’s and then decided I hated them. But in the past few years I realized for some things, and with some amps, nothing else does what they do, so I also keep a few around.

If the 81 is too thin for you, of course you can try the 85 which is a little thicker. I have found that at least for low tunings I actually really like the 57 as well. Funny enough it seems hotter to me than the 81 despite it being billed as a more “vintage PAF” sound.

 

[anomaly]

No, you won’t get the same effect because the EMG 81’s internal preamp is not just a high pass filter. There’s a lot more going on there that contributes to the end tone. But yeah the EQ profile of the 81 is kind of a narrow mid peak signal compared to any passive pickup.

I used them almost exclusively back in the late 90’s/early 2000’s and then decided I hated them. But in the past few years I realized for some things, and with some amps, nothing else does what they do, so I also keep a few around.

If the 81 is too thin for you, of course you can try the 85 which is a little thicker. I have found that at least for low tunings I actually really like the 57 as well. Funny enough it seems hotter to me than the 81 despite it being billed as a more “vintage PAF” sound.

I notice very little difference between the 81 and 57, just perhaps a little more high end attack in the 57 maybe??

 

[Bardagh]

I notice very little difference between the 81 and 57, just perhaps a little more high end attack in the 57 maybe??

That's surprising, they sound very different to me. The 57 has less of the low end and high end filtered out, so while it is not "scooped" it has a wider ranged sound compared to the 81. I've got the 81 in two guitars and the 57 in one at the moment, and the 57 sounds noticeably different and for whatever reason pushes amps harder. I have to dial in less gain to get a similar level of saturation with the 57 vs the 81, and I do dial the EQ in a little differently as well.

 

[RaceU4her]

I don’t find the 57 close to the 81 either, 57 is much more open

 

[JackBootedThug]

I have been an emg user for years and was never a huge fan….until I bought a set off spiderwars and then Ordered the 24v mod. Now I love them….just kinda opened them up and let’s them breathe if that makes sense. I really recommend it. Might alter it to your liking if you have not tried it yet.

 

[Rex Rocker]

The 57 is also hotter than the 81 (before the preamp). I honestly find it funny how people seem to rave about it being "more open and dynamic", when all you have to do is record DI's with them to notice the 57 is actually more compressed because of the clipping.

Cool pickups, though. I like both. But I prefer Fishman Fluence Moderns, personally.

The thing is for me that if I set my amp up to sound good using actives, passives just don't work. All passives have more high and low-end than the typical EMG classic series. So if you set up your stuff to sound good with EMG's, passives sound mega scooped. If you set your stuff up to sound good with passives, EMG's sound super narrow and thin.

 

[SBlue]

Always keep some EMG around, but they are far from my favorite pickups (especially don't like the feel).
They are just a mid hump to my ears, but if you EQ the amp accordingly it makes for a tight and thick sound.
The distortion characteristics is very fine grained, not rough like for example a neck PU normally is.
Also compared to passive Bridge Humbuckers, it has a similiar effect, just not as drastic.

I think this is just because of the highpass characteristic of the classic EMG series.
The reduced bass in the gain stages of an amp, just makes for a smoother, less rough distortion.

So wouldn't i get the same effect, if i build in a series cap in my passive guitars?
Or is it the more or less missing resonance peak of the EMG81/85?

I did have a Zakk Wade sig 81/85 in my Jackson RR5 since 2007, and really liked what it did to the sound. It was sharp, fast, with a lean but really tight low end, and had an upper mid that really reminded me of clang you hear when boosting an amp with a TC Preamp, or the Dirty Tree. The 85 in the neck sounded so clear and great, with absolute zero mud notes, no mater where I played on the neck. And this set in this guitar recorded incredibly well!
But then, following @psychodave and many other here at RT, I've decided to try out some of the early EMG pickups.
I've got the non solder less set of 81/85, black bottoms, and the difference is night and day! A whole lot more balanced and smoother sounding than the newer ZW 81/85. No more of the TC Preamp high end, and the clang is gone. You even get quite a bit more low end, but still really tight, and even better for chugging palm mutes!
They do also feel quite different. Not as stiff and unforgiven as the newer ones.
So I went ahead and got another set of the early 81/85 tan bottom, and can't wait till my RR-1T arrives so I can install those in it. For what I've been told, they are even better than the early black bottoms!
Try out some of those, if you haven't yet. It really made me love the EMGs even more.
And that's coming from someone who most Humbucker equipped guitars are old PAFs that barely reach 8k.

 

[acceptance]

Some of you guys already know this, but I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Apparently changes have been made to the 81's over the years, and specifically the opamp. In my experience the sound is drastically different, with the recent ones sounding really bad to my ears. If you have different vintages, compare your '03's and earlier to more recent. I have 00's, 03's, and 88's and they are totally different than my '16 and '22. The most recent sounds absolutely gross. It's got that mid hump but is totally missing whatever sweet sauce that made the earlier ones great, and is quite abrasive. I don't have any between '03 and '16 so I don't know precisely when things changed, but I'd consider starting with the old logo versions and see what you think. YMMV.

 

[Techdeth]

I’m the same . Love them hate them

 

[Detroit1973]

I did have a Zakk Wade sig 81/85 in my Jackson RR5 since 2007, and really liked what it did to the sound. It was sharp, fast, with a lean but really tight low end, and had an upper mid that really reminded me of clang you hear when boosting an amp with a TC Preamp, or the Dirty Tree. The 85 in the neck sounded so clear and great, with absolute zero mud notes, no mater where I played on the neck. And this set in this guitar recorded incredibly well!
But then, following @psychodave and many other here at RT, I've decided to try out some of the early EMG pickups.
I've got the non solder less set of 81/85, black bottoms, and the difference is night and day! A whole lot more balanced and smoother sounding than the newer ZW 81/85. No more of the TC Preamp high end, and the clang is gone. You even get quite a bit more low end, but still really tight, and even better for chugging palm mutes!
They do also feel quite different. Not as stiff and unforgiven as the newer ones.
So I went ahead and got another set of the early 81/85 tan bottom, and can't wait till my RR-1T arrives so I can install those in it. For what I've been told, they are even better than the early black bottoms!
Try out some of those, if you haven't yet. It really made me love the EMGs even more.
And that's coming from someone who most Humbucker equipped guitars are old PAFs that barely reach 8k.

They Changed the Preamp in 2015 or 2017. that's the main cause for the newer ones sounding different.

 

[acceptance]

They Changed the Preamp in 2015 or 2017. that's the main cause for the newer ones sounding different.

I heard 2017. My '16 didn't sound anywhere as near as good as the earlier ones, but it wasn't at all as bad as the '22. So far everything I've tried from '03 and earlier sounds awesome. I haven't ever had the chance to try a tan bottom, but if they sound better than my '88 I'll be amazed.

 

[Detroit1973]

That's what I heard, but my '16 didn't sound anywhere as near as good as the earlier ones, while it wasn't as bad as the '22. So far everything I've tried from '03 and earlier sounds awesome.

I have a Les Paul that has a Set from 1996 & they will never leave that guitar. It just sounds massive & clear.

 

[valve]

No, you won’t get the same effect because the EMG 81’s internal preamp is not just a high pass filter. There’s a lot more going on there that contributes to the end tone. But yeah the EQ profile of the 81 is kind of a narrow mid peak signal compared to any passive pickup.

I used them almost exclusively back in the late 90’s/early 2000’s and then decided I hated them. But in the past few years I realized for some things, and with some amps, nothing else does what they do, so I also keep a few around.

If the 81 is too thin for you, of course you can try the 85 which is a little thicker. I have found that at least for low tunings I actually really like the 57 as well. Funny enough it seems hotter to me than the 81 despite it being billed as a more “vintage PAF” sound.

Yeah, agreed, but i don't want the passives to sound like the EMG.
I was just wondering if high passing a passive will give me the less rough distortion (because of less bass ending up in the preamp) like an EMG will give me.
depending on the guitar, the EMG81 is not too thin, but yeah i have an alder superstrat where the EMG85 is much better...

 

[valve]

That's surprising, they sound very different to me. The 57 has less of the low end and high end filtered out, so while it is not "scooped" it has a wider ranged sound compared to the 81. I've got the 81 in two guitars and the 57 in one at the moment, and the 57 sounds noticeably different and for whatever reason pushes amps harder. I have to dial in less gain to get a similar level of saturation with the 57 vs the 81, and I do dial the EQ in a little differently as well.

i hear it the same way

 

[Bardagh]

Yeah, agreed, but i don't want the passives to sound like the EMG.
I was just wondering if high passing a passive will give me the less rough distortion (because of less bass ending up in the preamp) like an EMG will give me.
depending on the guitar, the EMG81 is not too thin, but yeah i have an alder superstrat where the EMG85 is much better...

If you try using an EQ pedal in front of your amp you can mess with what happens. I’ve never found that it smooths things out much, but you can thin it out (helpful with some amps yo increase the gain knob without things getting as bloated and woofy) and you can see what effect other frequencies have. But it’s more just enhancing what’s already there. It’s still the sound of your pickup.

The EMG preamp fliters out a lot of lows but also some of the highs and introduces a certain amount of compression. Now, if you use a tubescreamer type pedal in front of your amp, it will also filter out some lows and highs, adds some compression and distortion etc even if you keep the gain at 0. Tubescreamers like the 808 sound pretty smooth. So if you are one of the few who haven’t tried the old tubescreamer boost, you may like it.

 

[valve]

...
The thing is for me that if I set my amp up to sound good using actives, passives just don't work. All passives have more high and low-end than the typical EMG classic series. So if you set up your stuff to sound good with EMG's, passives sound mega scooped. If you set your stuff up to sound good with passives, EMG's sound super narrow and thin.

agreed. Yes i do need different amp settings for both, but that's no problem with my VHX.

 

[valve]

If you try using an EQ pedal in front of your amp you can mess with what happens. I’ve never found that it smooths things out much, but you can thin it out (helpful with some amps yo increase the gain knob without things getting as bloated and woofy) and you can see what effect other frequencies have. But it’s more just enhancing what’s already there. It’s still the sound of your pickup.

The EMG preamp fliters out a lot of lows but also some of the highs and introduces a certain amount of compression. Now, if you use a tubescreamer type pedal in front of your amp, it will also filter out some lows and highs, adds some compression and distortion etc even if you keep the gain at 0. Tubescreamers like the 808 sound pretty smooth. So if you are one of the few who haven’t tried the old tubescreamer boost, you may like it.

No i haven't messed with tubescreamers! i definitely should try some!

I think the high end "filtering" is just loading the coils with relatively low loads. So a hardly noticable resonance peak and quite some highend roll off . But yeah it's different for each coil so you don't get it with passives. but i don't think i want the EMG top. there is a bit of a cocked wah quality with the high end roll off...
https://www.electrosmash.com/emg81

My EMGs are not new. Not Hardwired either. but some must be from the 90s

 

[FLUXX]

Try, the EMG 81-x. It has more headroom, and sounds amazing to me.
I have them in the bridge position of my main guitars (Ibanez RGD2120Z)
I personally feel they make the original 81 obsolete.

 

[valve]

Try, the EMG 81-x. It has more headroom, and sounds amazing to me.
I have them in the bridge position of my main guitars (Ibanez RGD2120Z)
I personally feel they make the original 81 obsolete.

i have them too.
But i still prefer my passives, except for that one thing...