Enlighten Me --- Mod 100, M4,modules

[Panhead5]

Ok here's the deal .Right now I have a Randall RM 100 and use the JTM ,plexi, sl+ modules .It sounds great and actually better than many Marshalls I've owned ,but I'm missing that 4 th slot for a good clean module .As I read the Egnater seminar everyone rants and raves about this tone and that tone from the different modules but where's the power section fit in the equation??? See , I run the RM100 with EL34's and mine is the ultimate Marshall tone setup.I also use Vintage greenback and G12h30 cabs.The Randall Recto , XTC ,and Top Boost modules didn't sound anything like those amps (I own all three) but I suspect it was because of the cab selection and power tube choice .Sooooo--- when everyone says it replicates this sound or that sound and they're using this set of tubes and that cab how is that possible ??

I guess my take is that the tone thing is the result of the whole package .I'm kinda leaning towards the Fender module not really sounding to Fenderish with el34's and a 4-12 cab.

Anyway, this isn't a troll thread and I'm considering looking for a used Mod 100 or an M4 but Ithought I'd open up a friendly discussion !!!

 

[Valtiel]

It will still sound Fenderish, to some extent. As guitarslinger would tell you, a Twin will still sound like a Twin if you put EL34's in it. But you can probably expect a little less top end sparkle and a little more midrange push due to both the tubes and the speakers you are using.

 

[guitarslinger]

It will still sound Fenderish, to some extent. As guitarslinger would tell you, a Twin will still sound like a Twin if you put EL34's in it. But you can probably expect a little less top end sparkle and a little more midrange push due to both the tubes and the speakers you are using.

Couldn't have said it better.

The VX module through 6L6's sounds much more like a Vox than a Fender.

Power tubes, while quality is crucial for "good tone" , IMO, only contribute about 15% to those signature tones you know and love. Example: IME, EH 6550's always sound grating, thin, and weird through my 2150, while GE's sounds thick, beautiful, and awesome.


With a well-loaded M4 through a good 6550 equipped power amp, with good 6550's, it's no problem to cop Fender, Vox, Marshall, and Mesa tones. seriously.

Many people will disagree with me big time on this one,

 

[aeroic]

It will still sound Fenderish, to some extent. As guitarslinger would tell you, a Twin will still sound like a Twin if you put EL34's in it. But you can probably expect a little less top end sparkle and a little more midrange push due to both the tubes and the speakers you are using.

Couldn't have said it better.

The VX module through 6L6's sounds much more like a Vox than a Fender.

Power tubes, while quality is crucial for "good tone" , IMO, only contribute about 15% to those signature tones you know and love. Example: IME, EH 6550's always sound grating, thin, and weird through my 2150, while GE's sounds thick, beautiful, and awesome.


With a well-loaded M4 through a good 6550 equipped power amp, with good 6550's, it's no problem to cop Fender, Vox, Marshall, and Mesa tones. seriously.

Many people will disagree with me big time on this one,

I agree with you Gene

 

[bstaley]

With a well-loaded M4 through a good 6550 equipped power amp, with good 6550's, it's no problem to cop Fender, Vox, Marshall, and Mesa tones. seriously.

Many people will disagree with me big time on this one,

+1

6550's in my VHT 2-90-2 here.

 

[Panhead5]

Are most people using 6550's in the power amps with the M4 ?? That does seem a strange for those tones.I'm not really expecting perfection ,as there will be compromises somewhere along the way.

 

[aeroic]

Are most people using 6550's in the power amps with the M4 ?? That does seem a strange for those tones.I'm not really expecting perfection ,as there will be compromises somewhere along the way.

Why do you say that? Some of the best "Fendery tones" (ie dumble) from SRV were 6550 equipped amps! Look at Zakk Wylde and his JCM 800s...6550 equipped . A big part of the tone comes from the preamp section typically, especially in high gain stuff. I have NO PROBLEM getting fendery sounds, marshall sounds, etc from 6550s at all. I don't feel I compromise anything at all w/ 6550s (both in my M4 / VHT 2/90/2 rig, and my Mod50 rig). I can get sparkling, big, full, lush clean tones on my VX, BMAN, COD...and can get muscular, big, tight, full higher gain tones out of my other modules.

In the modular line, most of your tone comes from the preamp for sure, and more of the "feel" comes from the power amp. There are small tonal changes that go from EL34s to 6L6s to 5881s to 6550s to KT88s...but most of what you get from one to another is truly about feel.

6550s for me really make each module shine with the least tonal influence IMHO. Plus, as you get louder, or quieter, the tone doesn't change as much as with 6L6 or EL34 amps. I get great consistent tone at all volumes.

Eric

 

[swimrunner]

From what I hear, 6550's are relatively balanced-sounding tubes with tight bass and lots of headroom (and good for metal!). The whole modular idea is to try and get and squeeze as much total amp sound into the preamp section as possible, so it makes sense to me.

 

[3 Mile Stone]

An easy temporary solution would be to buy a Fender module as you said and then add a booster. The booster of preference with Egnater gear has typically been the Xotic BB Booster. You could set it up this way.

Module 1 = Fender Style (Deluxe, Black Face or Tweed)
Module 2 = Your JTM or Plexi. Dial down the gain to the JTM level on the Plexi for the JTM tones, add Xotic BB pedal to acheive second level of gain that you were setting the Plexi at. The BB is fantastic at mid gain Marshall tones, so this is a great way to accomplish this.
Module 3 = SL+


This also allows you the fourth "BB into Fender" tone for an additional shade.

 

[Klark]

..then add a booster. The booster of preference with Egnater gear has typically been the Xotic BB Booster.

The number one thing on my Egnater wish list is a midi selectable output boost. Not a front-end boost like an OCD or BB, but an output boost. I never thought I would use it on my old 3+, but wow, what a great feature. And it doesn't even need to be adjustable like the 3+. Bruce could poll the forum and hopefully we all could agree on a db level (5 or 6db is my vote). No tone controls, no level, just a midi CC# to turn it on or off. And the M4 already uses 9 CC#'s now, 8 for channel select, and the 9th for output mute.

Bruce & Jeff, what would it take to make this happen? I would seriously pay for a retrofit/upgrade.

 

[swimrunner]

I dunno, I think you could just buy one of these, or use an EQ (MXR and BYOC are very good) in the loop.

http://www.psionicaudio.net/main/lumos.htm

 

[Klark]

That's an idea, but that requires another footswitch and/or another control function. Neither of which I have.

Midi is my only option, without reworking a bunch of things.