Fender 6 hole strat bridge / trem staying in tune ala EVH?

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ThrowBackMan

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Can anyone tell me the secret, although it must not be a big secret
to guys like EVH and Yngwie who used Strats and the vintage trems, etc,
before the floyds for EVH, and still stayed in tune? I mean at least a little?
I realize you can't stay in tune maybe totally, but I watched Yngwie stay in tune
good with a standard Fender bridge. What is he doing or his tech doing?
Thanks in advance for any help!
T
 
EVH's setup worked for him, but if someone knows some EVH solos they can see that EVH is often resetting the trem by using a dive after doing some string bending which tends to knock it out of tune, so the dive becomes a part of the style and a trem reset.

Yngwie seems to use a floating trem probably close to Fender specs http://www.fender.com/en-AU/support/art ... tup-guide/

Someone said their Malmsteen sig came with a floating set-up, G and B having a tone of pull-up and the top E having half a tone pull-up.

The only real success I've had is by using a small floating setup like in the Fender specs (something like G and B having a tone of pull-up and the top E having half a tone of pull-up as in the Yngwie case) and this helps the trem recover from string bends which knock the tuning out, and overfiling all of the nut slots to be able to take a 6th strings width and therefore diminish nut/string movement holdups and only using 1 string tee (1st and 2nd strings) and making sure that the string tee slots are smooth (fine sandpaper) and the string tee height set as high as possible to reduce string clampdown between the tuners and the nut.

Also the way the string gets wraps around the tuner, the string should be free to move without any holdups.

After all of that I can get some trem/strings movement balance happening and the old 3rd string bend sending the tuning out is minimized to where it's not that noticeable.

The main tuning problem is not really the dives as the tuning should return to near where it was originally after a dive (unless there are big string holdup problems somewhere).

The main tuning problem are caused by string bends and just bending the 3rd string can knock the tuning right out and the trem doesn't return to tune after the string bend (unless a dive tuning reset is done after the string bend) and that's why the nut slots and string tee and maybe the string saddles need more things done to them to minimise any string movement holdups and the floating bridge helps the trem with spring return balance and therefore tuning.
 
The six screws need to set correctly (not too tight or loose) right off the bat. It's the first thing I do when I get a new Strat.
Best way to do this is remove the strings, remove the springs in the back attached to the claw. Now the bridge is "free".

Screw in the tremolo arm ( I use it as a visual aide)

Now, one by one, tighten each screw. When the bridge lifts and the arm moves with it, you went too far. The idea is to back it off till the bridge sits flat on the body. Do it with all six screws, put the springs back on, restring, and at least you'll know your bridge is set correctly.

The rest, use a nut lube.

EVH's bridge was set flat, so when he bent he would go flat and he did a quick trem dive to bring it back.
On a floating bridge, if you bend and go flat, you pull the trem arm up to get it back in tune
 
I never understood why more guys don't use long allen screws into the block where the string goes (tap the block, thread in the screw until it hits the ball end of the string) and put some Sperzel or other brand of locking tuners on it...you basically have a Floyd Rose (string clamped at each end) with no additional hardware...works great !
 
Its a fine balancing act. I've only started to be able to keep one in tune with use in the last couple of years. You just have to work all the individual aspects until you find what works for you.
 
paulyc":3rlj89fl said:
I never understood why more guys don't use long allen screws into the block where the string goes (tap the block, thread in the screw until it hits the ball end of the string) and put some Sperzel or other brand of locking tuners on it...you basically have a Floyd Rose (string clamped at each end) with no additional hardware...works great !
Click to expand...

This. My good friend and guitar maker is installing a new "no fine tuner" Floyd on my main axe, Govan-style, because I am tired of not staying in tune. I have never understood why no one is able to make a standard strat bridge that locks the strings. I mean, we have machines that will make a guitar sound like anything we want, that can be controlled by a mobile phone, but making a strat trem that locks the strings is quite a challenge?
For me there is no doubt that the problem is related to the movement of the string on the saddle, between the saddle and the ball-end and the ball-end itself. Mr. John Suhr tested this by installing a floyd nut on a strat years ago, thinking that it would then be impossible to knock out of tune - it wasn´t.
I know Hendrix played the 6-screw vintage trem, but I would rather stay in tune than play what Hendrix played…

My best advice is to use nut lube and set the trem slightly floating. If a string should drift off, a slight wiggle of the trem can bring it back in tune.

Kris.
 
Thanks everyone. It's interesting. I find that I can make it stay in tune mostly if I don't use it much.. LOL. But my Floyd equipped guitar.. Or I should say my Charvel which has a Charvel Branded Trem, but says Schaller made in Germany NEVER goes out of tune. It seems I could throw it against the wall and it would stay in tune.. I guess I'm used to it, but I love my strat too. I typically just screw the bridge down on the guitar body and dont' use the trem, but I thought after watching Yngwie and EVH use one I'd like to see if I can get it to work.. Thanks for all the suggestions..
T
 
Even as a guitar tech, i have issues with this to a point.I can always get it right, but it takes some playing around with.

As said, it comes down to claw angle, how tight the screws are and, most importantly, the nut. All three need to be pretty perfect and it changes with tuning, string gauge, how many springs, etc. Every single guitar seems to be different.

The only guitar that i ever got stock, that has no issues is my Custom Shop Gilmour Strat. I can wail on that bar all day.
 
i read an EVH interview 15-20 years ago where he talked about this exact thing.

he blamed it on friction at the nut, which makes sense. so all the tricks he mentioned were things to lessen that friction.

he said he installed a brass nut, and kept the string slots lubed with 3-in-1 oil (a light machine oil for metals).

when winding the strings onto the tuner pegs, he wound the wrappings up the peg, not down the peg like most people do. he did this to make the angle that the string comes down off the nut from more flat, more straight-across the nut.

with the strings wound that way and the nut lubed, he said the strings would sometimes pop out of the nut grooves. so when he played power chords in the low positions, he would fret not with his index finger but with his middle or ring finger and lay his index finger across the strings behind the nut, to keep them from popping out.

he also knew which strings tended to go out of tune first--B and G i think? so he adjusted his voicings for power chords to leave those out when he could. i think he said his live A was x02xxx and his D only xx02xx.

neat tricks. neat how well he knew his instrument and tweaked it to give him what he needed so he could do his unique playing technique.

now, i'm no EVH gear zealot; that's just what i read. if folks don't believe it or read something different somewhere else, that's fine. these are still neat tricks regardless.
 
I have a Franky clone I built that I put a Callaham six screw strat bridge in and set it up to be flat to the body of the guitar. It never goes out of tune no matter how much I abuse the bar. Crazy… I have never been able to get ANY other 6 screw strat bridge or Charvel brass bridge to stay in tune for any length of time no matter what I did. It's a trip… I will say this guitar also has locking tuners, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Steve
 
I have seen some leave the two innermost screws out as its supposed to alleviate binding? have never tried it. I think andy Timmons does this as well.
 
Thanks a lot. I think I read that a long time ago, but didn't really appreciate it as much as I do now.. I'm always playing with my strat I built. and now wanting to see if I can get it to hold tune. It will do so if I pull up before I quit playing the trem, but then it won't do so if I don't, so I'm almost sure it's the nut which is a bone nut that was cut for this guitar. I hate to mess with it, but thinking of using some chap stick. I read that this helps with the trems and I"ve used it on my trems knife edges with good results on my schaller floyd which gets a lot of abuse and stays in tune really well. As a matter of fact it will almost stay in perfect tune with the strings stretched and the locking nuts loose. Thing stays in tune really well, part of the reason for buying that charvel guitar even though I don't like the Fire crackle finish or whatever it's called.
Thanks so much guys.. All of you for answers.. I mean that..

_actual time_":1s3b638s said:
i read an EVH interview 15-20 years ago where he talked about this exact thing.

he blamed it on friction at the nut, which makes sense. so all the tricks he mentioned were things to lessen that friction.

he said he installed a brass nut, and kept the string slots lubed with 3-in-1 oil (a light machine oil for metals).

when winding the strings onto the tuner pegs, he wound the wrappings up the peg, not down the peg like most people do. he did this to make the angle that the string comes down off the nut from more flat, more straight-across the nut.

with the strings wound that way and the nut lubed, he said the strings would sometimes pop out of the nut grooves. so when he played power chords in the low positions, he would fret not with his index finger but with his middle or ring finger and lay his index finger across the strings behind the nut, to keep them from popping out.

he also knew which strings tended to go out of tune first--B and G i think? so he adjusted his voicings for power chords to leave those out when he could. i think he said his live A was x02xxx and his D only xx02xx.

neat tricks. neat how well he knew his instrument and tweaked it to give him what he needed so he could do his unique playing technique.

now, i'm no EVH gear zealot; that's just what i read. if folks don't believe it or read something different somewhere else, that's fine. these are still neat tricks regardless.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks everyone. I'm going to try some of the suggestions and see what happens..
Tim
 
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