Fender Strat Tremolo 'floating' setup

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MrDan666

MrDan666

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So i recently decided to setup the trem on my USA Fender Strat to float, so i can pull up aswell as dive with it. I should mention that it is the newer 2 point vintage trem, rather than the old 6 screw type.

I got it setup to the point where i don't have any tuning issues, even if i do some crazy stuff with the bar. It seems that aslong as i do a dive afterwards, then it always comes back in tune perfectly. However, if i pull up and don't do a dive straight after.. Then it ends up outta tune a little bit.

Here's where i have a problem :
When i'm soloing i tend to do a lot of huge bends ala Sykes/Aldrich, where i'm bending up 2 to 3 full steps higher. Well whenever i do one of those massive bends, straight after i finish the bend.. the guitar is out of tune. If i do a quick dive with the bar, then it's back in perfect tune.
Problem is that i don't always have time to throw in a quick dive, nor would i want to, after every big bend that i do.

Is there some way of setting up the trem so that this problem won't happen anymore? It would be cool if i didn't have to do a dive after every time i do a big bend :doh:
 
Aside from the typical things like well lubed, properly cut nut slots, stretched strings, well seated ball ends, etc, you are doing it right. The main reason I have my Fender 2-point trem set up floating is so I can push or pull it back into tune. At the end of the day, it simply isn't going to work as well as a Floyd.
 
To paraphrase Neil Young: "Guitars go out of tune. Big deal."

Just make sure you tune it up before the next song.

A little "tuning dissonance" is what makes a Strat a Strat. Embrace it!

:thumbsup:
 
I love Wilkerson roller nuts. Best thing ever for the person who doesn't want a Floyd.
 
I prefer the LSR personally but, generally speaking, I concur.
 
Thanks for the advice guys! Unfortunately, my trem is already setup the Frudua way and that is the problem.

If you skip to around 7:25 in that video in the last post, you'll see that just by doing a large string bend.. It throws his guitar completely out of tune. Yeah you can just throw a quick dive after and it comes back in tune. But if you have a solo where you need to do several big bends in a row and don't have time to do a dive on the bar after each bend... It basically makes the whole thing totally un-usable.

So by setting up the trem the Frudua way, you can't really do bends any bigger than a whole step otherwise the guitar is out of tune until you dive the bar again. That's fine for light handed players who don't do many bends... But for the heavy handed guys, you're screwed when using that setup.

There HAS to be another way around this, because if you watch the DIO - Evil Or Divine Live DVD.. Doug Aldrich is using vintage trems on his Strats (set to float) and he is doing HUGE bends all the time without having to throw a dive afterwards. I'm 90% sure John Suhr was setting Doug's guitars up back then, so i should probably send him an email about it.
 
It's a myth that you need a FIoyd Rose to stay in tune. Check out Beck's Live at Ronnie Scott's. He'll adjust a tuner maybe once or twice throughout the entire concert while abusing the hell out of the arm. If the two-point trem is setup correctly, you will not have to worry about tuning issues. Any good tech can make get it to play like butter. Rule of thumb - Spring tension must equal string tension. Typical height should be 1/8 of an inch off the body. A roller nut helps too. Sometimes the strings can get caught in the tree as well, so make sure that's clean and lubricated.
 
Make sure the nut is lubed. Big Bends Nut Sauce or something similar.
 
I understand that it is a permanent commitment to go the roller nut route, but despite what some may claim, it is anything but bullshit.

I own two Fender-ish parts guitars I put together that will slay most of the foo-foo stuff out there (from a functional standpoint - not looks). They both have Wilkinson two point bridges and roller nuts with locking tuners.

They won't 'dive' as far as my Floyd equipped guitars, but the tuning stability and performance is exemplary. For me, they are desert island guitars.

I have owned a crap ton of guitars in my day. As I get older, pedigree cachet is less important to me now than pure function.

I completely understand if you don't wish to go to the time and trouble to install a roller nut or if you are trying to maintain a vintage vibe. But, if you don't care about anything besides the way it works for you, it is a worthwhile investment.
 
Zap":133f7p44 said:
It's a myth that you need a FIoyd Rose to stay in tune.
Click to expand...
Not completely...it depends entirely on how its used and what modifications a player is willing to make. A roller nut can certainly help...some will argue that it affects a guitar's tone adversely though (ala the Floyd Rose).
You don't typically see Jeff Beck dive bomb until his Strat's strings go completely slack...if you want to do that with consistent tuning stability, nothing tops a Floyd. And although he used his trem heavily, he's not heavy handed with it...he stays within a "safety zone" so to speak. He's also a master of manipulating it back into tune when things get wonky...and he does it fluidly as an overall part of his approach.

I have a Dimarzio parts guitar that stays in tune better than anything I've ever tried with a normal nut and vintage trem, but aggressive dive-bombing will still throw it out. Think the culprit is the shifting of the ball end and not so much the nut/tuners.
 
Postby Suhr » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:30 am

The strings are tied to a uni body bridge that is planted on the screws or posts . The Block is not flexible . No amount of claw angle, different spring tension etc is ever going to change the way the strings drop or affect anything except for having different springs setup at different stretch points. For instance you can change the feel of the trem by having 1 spring bottom out at a position, but you can't change the pitch/tension of treble vs bass strings by adjusting the angle of the claw. This is quite easy to prove with a strain gauge and I have checked it out for fun just to make sure, there was no difference. The dive notes of the strings are effected by angle over the nut and saddles as well as string tension and gauge purely. Scott Henderson stays in tune great and does not use this method. Carl of course is a great player and like many great players has a setup that he feels works for him much the same as the Feiten system works the best for Buzz. Most important the way he plays. He doesn't do a lot of finger bends without a bar dip afterwards. That is the key to staying in tune with trems that are non locking. Frudua youtube videos are pretty good at explaining the way to tune a trem equiped guitar. Also look at the way Beck plays and pay attention to how they bend or don't bend notes and their use of the bar. I cant keep a Wilkinson nut stay in tune for me but it is Becks choice and works for HIS way of playing, that is where the key is. The Block does not flex, A planted bridge does not twist, no way around that one. The only thing an angled claw will change is the feel of the trem, not tuning stability or the pitch of the string when the bridge is used, again, I have measured this and with a $25 strain gauge you can too.


Here is John Suhr's post in hugeracks.
 
MrDan666":9b94xiuw said:
Thanks for the advice guys! Unfortunately, my trem is already setup the Frudua way and that is the problem.
There HAS to be another way around this, because if you watch the DIO - Evil Or Divine Live DVD.. Doug Aldrich is using vintage trems on his Strats (set to float) and he is doing HUGE bends all the time without having to throw a dive afterwards. I'm 90% sure John Suhr was setting Doug's guitars up back then, so i should probably send him an email about it.
Click to expand...

This fascinated me as well. I have watched that DVD so many times and it is really remarkable the way he dive bombs as if it were a floyd. I posted a question about this on Doug's message board a few years ago. I forget his exact answer but to paraphrase he just mentioned to make sure your nut slots are cut well and the nut is well lubed. I have never been able to get this kind of performance from a vintage trem and kind of gave up. Maybe I'll build another parts strat and give it another shot.
 
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