From D-Moll to Herbert Mk3?

[RyeDaddy]

Hello all, new here from TX! ? Have a question for those with experience:

I’ve had a D-Moll for a couple years and love it, but lately have the itch to move to Herbert Mk3. Mainly the added versatility of having a dedicated EQ for the 3rd channel is what attracts me. I play metal and have both V30 and K100 FL cabs.

Currently the D-Moll is my only Diezel, how does the Herb compare for voicing? Is the Herb basically a more brawny version of same sound? Or is the Herb even further over in left field from say a VH4?

Edit to answer my original question:

Since posting this I ran around and tried most of Diezel’s lineup and came to sell my D-Moll and ended up with a VH4 and a Herbert Mk3. Happy with both, the VH4 is the greatest amp ever made I think. Every channel is unique and PERFECT. The Mk3 is a metal monstrosity that is surprisingly versatile and well behaved at low volume.

As to D-Moll vs Herb3, I went out and tried side by side my D-Moll, a Herb Mk2 and a Mk3. My conclusion was that all 3 were different but very obviously close siblings with the D-Moll being closest to the Mk2 but with a different clean channel. More chimey, beautiful. Kinda halfway between VH4 and Herb cleans, the perfect blend of glass and bounce. I honestly don’t care too much for the Herbert cleans although they are great and other people love them. For me personally the Herb cleans are too warm and round. I much prefer the hard glassy type cleans of the VH4.

The D-Moll has a looser bottom end, boomy like the Herbert Mk2. In comparison the Herb Mk3 to me seems much tighter with less “apparent” bass and a less dense mid section. It tracks much faster than the D-Moll or Mk2, and is more what I find to be razor-ish in it’s distortion. The D-Moll and Mk3 have more very top end sizzle than the Mk2 also, they come across as slightly brighter. So in conclusion the Mk3 is as Diezel describes it: tighter and more tuned for fast metal. Mk3 is what I consider “super Modern” sounding. MourningEngine below this post was dead-on.

 

[MourningEngine]

The Herbert Mk3 sounds very different to the Herbert Mk1 and Mk2 as well as the D-Moll. It's less "dense" in the mids, more raw and tighter. If you play fast riffs I would go for it.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Thanks for the input. If it’s tighter than the D-Moll I don’t think I’d like it as much as I want to. Feel like I’d be better off looking at a Mk2, but then you lose the MIDI-switchable +/- on Ch 2. Oh well, I’m not unhappy with my current amp, probably just stay right where I’m at. The D-Moll just seems to do everything well.

 

[Ventura]

Thanks for the input. If it’s tighter than the D-Moll I don’t think I’d like it as much as I want to. Feel like I’d be better off looking at a Mk2, but then you lose the MIDI-switchable +/- on Ch 2. Oh well, I’m not unhappy with my current amp, probably just stay right where I’m at. The D-Moll just seems to do everything well.

I've had experience with the Mk.I not the Mk.III - but I've kept the D-Moll... It's a fucking amazing amp. To me?? The simplicity of the D-Moll distills all the awesomeness of the Herb, and puts its own spin on it and makes for a very easy access, versatile amp. It's a brute. I love the D-Moll...

Peace
Unkle Mo

 

[RyeDaddy]

I’m just caught up in the shiny and new hoo-ha and the “more is better” mentality. *shrug*

I do love my D-Moll, and I just put new tubes in it.

 

[Ventura]

I’m just caught up in the shiny and new hoo-ha and the “more is better” mentality. *shrug*

I do love my D-Moll, and I just put new tubes in it.

New tubes can do wonders for the ears.

Another thing I've come to love about the D-Moll is how versatile it is given a variety of cabs/speakers. It's not only a beast, but a damn versatile beast.

What glass you rolling in your D...?? Powertubes or new glass flush across the chassis?? Inquiring minds wanna know

 

[skullfxr]

I forgot who it was, but there were in the last few days a few clips of rev d and rev g mesa rectifiers with the Herbert mkiii and the OP and most others preferred the mesa. Myself as well.

Personally I have not had much time on a diezel, but it's food for thought.

 

[RyeDaddy]

What glass you rolling in your D...?? Powertubes or new glass flush across the chassis?? Inquiring minds wanna know

Well, the JJ KT77s were original to the amp (it’s a 2012 I believe), and previous owner who is a member here had put old Telefunken 12AX7s in it all across the board. After having it a couple years it just wasn’t tickling me the way it did when I got it. Seemed dull, so I figured it was time for a retube.

First was Svetlana 6L6, didn’t like them. Too bright and toppy, not enough mids, made the amp sound too much like shattering glass to me.

Next was JJ E34L, good but now it wasn’t far enough away from the sounds my other EL34 based high gainers have, so...

Put in a new set of JJ KT77s: WHAM! There it is! Bold and awesome. Bout halfway between the 6L6 and E34L. Enough mids, nice big but tight bottom end. Balanced.

Then I went through a bunch of preamp tubes I have. A/B’ing back and forth in all the slots after Mr Diezel was kind enough to email me what slot does what. Ended up with a mix of new production Mullard CV4004 and Genalex Gold Lions. Never used the Mullards before, but I really like the CV4004, reminds me of a new Tungsol but without as much brightness. Very high gain. Also have a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the phase inverter. Didn’t like JJ ECC83S, or the Ruby HG.

Also some may find interesting that before going back to all KT77s I tried mixing one pair of E34L and one pair of the Svetlana 6L6 in the poweramp. Mr Diezel said he didn’t recommend it soundwise although it was safe to do and he was soooo right. Weird sounding, like muddy or out of phase or something.

FWIW I’m still hankering for a Herbert. Oh, or a VH4. ? But I’m pretty sure I’ll keep the D-Moll in any case, it’s just so loveable and easy to dial in and versatile while being brutal.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I knew within a few days that the DMoll wasn't for me. The tone and more importantly the feel were not going going to work. Too soft on the attack and voiced to much in the low mids. I'd like to get my hands on a VH4 to see how it compares.

 

[Apex1Rg7X]

I knew within a few days that the DMoll wasn't for me. The tone and more importantly the feel were not going going to work. Too soft on the attack and voiced to much in the low mids. I'd like to get my hands on a VH4 to see how it compares.

I've been considering a DMoll lately but your description of the amp has me concerned. What style of music do you play and what was your biggest issue with the amp in particular? I play stuff like Slipknot, Deftones, Meshuggah etc...do you feel the DMoll would lack for those styles of music?

 

[bhuard75]

I knew within a few days that the DMoll wasn't for me. The tone and more importantly the feel were not going going to work. Too soft on the attack and voiced to much in the low mids. I'd like to get my hands on a VH4 to see how it compares.

I've been considering a DMoll lately but your description of the amp has me concerned. What style of music do you play and what was your biggest issue with the amp in particular? I play stuff like Slipknot, Deftones, Meshuggah etc...do you feel the DMoll would lack for those styles of music?

The amp (DMoll) needs to be bitch slapped up front with an overdrive or EQ if your looking for tight articulation in the low end. No day dream about that. Maybe you didnt jive with the amp Mike and thats cool. We like what we like.

Having had a dmoll for a couple years now, the mids are not low prominent unless dialed in to be so. Their is a learning curve using the mid cut. This amp is capable of handling any kind of rock and any kind of metal. Doesnt matter if you only beat bar chords to death or can actually play the instrument. But it needs an overdrive.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I knew within a few days that the DMoll wasn't for me. The tone and more importantly the feel were not going going to work. Too soft on the attack and voiced to much in the low mids. I'd like to get my hands on a VH4 to see how it compares.

I've been considering a DMoll lately but your description of the amp has me concerned. What style of music do you play and what was your biggest issue with the amp in particular? I play stuff like Slipknot, Deftones, Meshuggah etc...do you feel the DMoll would lack for those styles of music?

The amp (DMoll) needs to be bitch slapped up front with an overdrive or EQ if your looking for tight articulation in the low end. No day dream about that. Maybe you didnt jive with the amp Mike and thats cool. We like what we like.

Having had a dmoll for a couple years now, the mids are not low prominent unless dialed in to be so. Their is a learning curve using the mid cut. This amp is capable of handling any kind of rock and any kind of metal. Doesnt matter if you only beat bar chords to death or can actually play the instrument. But it needs an overdrive.

I tried it with 4-5 different overdrives and an MXR 10 band in the loop, and while it tightens the amp up it still has a fatter rounder attack which didn't work for me. Ran it for about 2 weeks before writing it off. Definitely not mushy, not saying that, but no where near the tight attack I look for. As far as the mids, I guess we all here things different because it completely lacked the upper mid grind I look for regardless of the mid cut feature. I don't mean to imply I think its a bad amp by any stretch; just a bad amp for me personally.

 

[bhuard75]

No Mike not at all did i get the impression you were dogging the amp. I know you like wizards, so I know what “mids” camp your coming from!! LOL.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Everybody’s different, the uber-present low mids is what I love about the D-Moll. It and my Orange Thunderverb 50 get all my time. The D-Moll being worlds tighter than the Orange. For contrast, my Marshall JVM410HJS is too high middy and too loose on the bass. Perhaps this is a good way to tell who plays with a band and who plays at home. ?

 

[Ventura]

I run my D-Moll at high volumes - NO OD - nothing upfront except the necessary goodies - wah, pitch, modulation...

To me? It's a fucking brute. And it's heavy as sin when ya dial it in. I love the percussiveness of it - and love the fact it really gets mean as hell when the volumes gets cranked. As for the low-end, it fits perfectly in the mix. No flub, not sub-sonic, but that's the purpose of a bass player/plugin.

It's versatile, and does damn fine cleans, to incredibly juicy means - and everything in between "perfectly" to my ears. Super surprised - seriously - took a while to dial it in, but man, once I figured it out (pups are important with Diezels...most certainly this one!!!) and had the right ax and right EQ, it was 100% addictive.

Love it.
YMMV.

Unkle Mo

 

[Ventura]

...Put in a new set of JJ KT77s: WHAM! There it is! Bold and awesome. Bout halfway between the 6L6 and E34L. Enough mids, nice big but tight bottom end. Balanced. Then I went through a bunch of preamp tubes I have. A/B’ing back and forth in all the slots after Mr Diezel was kind enough to email me what slot does what. Ended up with a mix of new production Mullard CV4004 and Genalex Gold Lions. Never used the Mullards before, but I really like the CV4004, reminds me of a new Tungsol but without as much brightness. Very high gain. Also have a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the phase inverter. Didn’t like JJ ECC83S, or the Ruby HG....

Awesome

I'm a fan of 77s in a number of my amps. The new JJs do seem pretty well built and sound decent - exceptional value. The Mullard reissues eh?? So, lemme guess - GL in V1 and V3 - Mullard in V2 ?? I'll have to give the Mullards a try - good call on the "brightness" of the Tung Sols - way too piercing and shrill. I really dig the Svetlana 12AX7s. And the GL-ECC83s. I've got the following mix in the D-Moll:
V1 - GL ECC83
V2 - GL ECC83
V3 - Svetlana 12AX7
V4/V5 - TAD7025S
V6 - Ei Yugo

Stock JJ77s that I just re-biased a bit after a good run through. They were a touch off centre, brought 'em up to around 33mA-35mA range. The amp is solidly balls out heavy. I'll see how long that spiral-filament Svet lasts in the CF position, I've really pumped this amp up to crazyass volumes. Yes, Ch.3 is hissy, but this is with the MV at or past 3 o'clock and the channel volumes dimed. Of course, it's gonna give some hiss. But I really wanted to push the Ei Yugo and the 77s; jury's out on the Ei versus LPS battle, the Ei offers a bit more immediacy and touch dynamics, but I've always defaulted to LPS. Just thought I'd run run for a while. Will likely revert back to LPS down the road (or try a 5751 in the PI slot).

Thanks for the glass rundown. I'm always keen on what bottles peeps are using.
And ya, the mix and match of tubes isn't my gig... Too many variables. Just gimme tubes with power, focus, and grind, and I'll take care of the rest

 

[Ventura]

No Mike not at all did i get the impression you were dogging the amp. I know you like wizards, so I know what “mids” camp your coming from!! LOL.

Yep - excellent observation
No dogging. We all have our "acquired tastes" when it comes to mids.
As my signature below will indicate my preference

 

[RyeDaddy]

Well I’ll be damned, strange turn of events. The North Dallas Guitar Center has a good selection of Diezels, and I still couldn’t get the Herbert outta my head. So it’s a hike for me to go over there with my schedule but I made time and went. The manager was very knowledgeable about Diezel and set up what I wanted to see with the same 412FK cab I use and went through the A/B/C process with me, helping adjust EQ and such to show where they shine. Great experience.

So I ended up trying the Herbert Mk3 vs the D-Moll and the VH4 and getting to hear and feel the differences. I wish they had a Hagen or a Herb Mk2, but oh well. Long story short, liked the Herb the least, even when up loud. Too much compression and fizz for me and missing something in the mids. The D-Moll is comparable but a different creature really. Unexpectedly I LOOOOVED the VH4, and HAD to have it. Nothing I’ve played compares.

Now they had 2 VH4’s, a new one and a used from 2005. With the price diff between new and used I took the 2005 home, having not played it. I found it very different than the new one I had played in the store, most notably it had less gain on channel 2. This one had EL34B-STR power tubes of unknown age and although I didn’t open it up I could see there was a mixed bag of preamp tubes in there also of unknown condition or age so that may be the difference. I liked it, but not as much as I had the new one in the store. So today I took the 2005 VH4 back up there and played it against the new one with KT77s and preferred the new one. Channel 2 distorts up nicely and can do old school hard rock easily. The 2005 had barely any more gain on channel 2 than channel 1. Not the case with the new one.

And so i traded in my D-Moll to the same store I originally bought it from and am the proud owner of a new VH4, and my thirst is quenched. This thing is my dream come true.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Nice!
Love seeing amp dreams come true

 

[Ventura]

The VH4 is hard to beat... It's the Grand-Poo-Bah of Diezel lineage and royalty. Can't blame ya man... Nice score

I want another one. Just to have another one. I need to stockpile them like Uberknot stockpiles Rev2's

Respect
Unkle Mo