Furman Power Regulator... Anyone else using them?

[TrueTone500]

I just received my Furman AR-117 that purchased on eBay. I've been using a variac to keep my input voltage down to 115-117VAC on my Cornford rig. This Furman unit is doing the same job, with no manual tweaking... The wall voltage is 125VAC on average - sometimes higher. The Furman is holding the line voltage at 115VAC on the nuggets!

 

[maddnotez]

I used to have one of the lower models when I had some rack gear.

Didn't really know what I was doing nor do I know much about voltage. I just enjoyed being able to plug all the rack gear into the furman I had

 

[jkkkjkhk]

I've been meaning to buy a Furman P-1800AR but paying that much for something I can't see or hear a difference..., but I need to and definitely will eventually. I had a 6505+ fried two years ago because of terrible apartment wiring. I'd be pretty upset for that to happen to my Mark III.

 

[TrueTone500]

I've been meaning to buy a Furman P-1800AR but paying that much for something I can't see or hear a difference..., but I need to and definitely will eventually. I had a 6505+ fried two years ago because of terrible apartment wiring. I'd be pretty upset for that to happen to my Mark III.

I wanted the P1800AR, but...$$$

I've read that a regulator improves tone...? I'm too tired to fire-up my rig, so I'll check it out tomorrow. If set my variac over the 117VAC mark, the preamp gain immediately begins to sound harsh. It would be interesting to look at the signal on a scope while adjusting the input voltage.

 

[mikey]

A regulator won't improve your tone, but it will help keep things more consistent.

 

[FourT6and2]

I've always wondered if a regulator or conditioner actually do anything. I think one is just a glorified power strip, but the other actually maintains a constant line voltage and filters ripple/dirty power? Not sure which is which.

 

[fretout]

I've always wondered if a regulator or conditioner actually do anything. I think one is just a glorified power strip, but the other actually maintains a constant line voltage and filters ripple/dirty power? Not sure which is which.

I think that they help. If you've ever had a day where your amp sounded tits, and then the next day it didn't sound that great, it could be the voltage the amp is getting. It helped even my outlets....ummmm....out....and made my amps more consistent. It also helped when gigging.

I have a Furman that was thrown in when I purchased a bunch of stuff at GC a while back. I don't use it much anymore, but I was considering getting one of the Monster Power conditioners. Not to derail the OP's thread, but does anyone have any experience?

 

[Mesa\Kramer]

It only takes a little change in voltage to make your amp start to go down hill tone wise.

Kind of like a Car that is tuned to run on premium 93 octane and you accidently fill it with some 85 octane.
You car prolly will run a little rough/less power

 

[FourT6and2]

If you're in the US, a change in 1 volt in the mains will yield a change of sometimes 4 volts on the plates (depending on the amp). So if your amp's plates are 480 @ 120v mains, a drop to 115v mains would equal 460 on the plates, which would be a 2ma change in bias at 70% dissipation. Which wouldn't really do much in the grand scheme of things. Hardly noticeable. Of course other voltages in the amp are affected as well though.

But from what I understand, the Furman stuff has a +/- 5 volt error anyway. So is it really doing anything? If your power is fluctuating 10 volts in either direction (that's a 20 volt fluctuation), then you got some serious problems in your wiring.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Have y'all measured your line voltage over time to see how much it changes? I've never seen mine change more than a volt or two at most and the wiring in my home is super old and crappy.

 

[TrueTone500]

If you're in the US, a change in 1 volt in the mains will yield a change of sometimes 4 volts on the plates (depending on the amp). So if your amp's plates are 480 @ 120v mains, a drop to 115v mains would equal 460 on the plates, which would be a 2ma change in bias at 70% dissipation. Which wouldn't really do much in the grand scheme of things. Hardly noticeable. Of course other voltages in the amp are affected as well though.

But from what I understand, the Furman stuff has a +/- 5 volt error anyway. So is it really doing anything? If your power is fluctuating 10 volts in either direction (that's a 20 volt fluctuation), then you got some serious problems in your wiring.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Have y'all measured your line voltage over time to see how much it changes? I've never seen mine change more than a volt or two at most and the wiring in my home is super old and crappy.

I was using a variac until getting the AR-117. Depending on the time of day (heavy use hours), I would have to make fine adjustments to the incoming voltage. Usually around 2 to 3 volts +/- to maintain 117 volts - sometimes as high a 6 volts! Brian Thompson (former head of TC Electronic service Denmark) recommended that I skip the regulator idea (due to its toroidal transformer), and continue using a variac. He also advised that you should turn your gear on at least once a week to help maintain the capacitors. As long as it sounds good, I'll continue using the Furman.

When using a variac, I find a 1.0VAC supply drop = 1.0mV bias drop. I'll document what I see the next time a set the bias.

Here is a good read on toroidal vs EI transformers:

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb071998.htm

 

[TrueTone500]

In the case of my RK100... I suspect the improvement I'm hearing is due more to getting the preamp bias into spec, not so much the power section. Cornford amps are designed to run at 110VAC - 115VAC max. 117VAC sounds really good to me... Any higher, and the amp begins to sound strange. I tend to keep it at 115VAC. Run it at 110VAC, and you're into "brown" territory. Once you get the voltage correct, it really is quite an enjoyable amp to play.

 

[the4thlast1]

Ok yes guys its called a Voltage Regulator. Keeps the power at a constant 120volts.... This DOES effect your tone. I have done comparisons with and without it. The power in my home doesnt fluctuate to bad or to far from 120 and it still made a difference for the better. I do not have clips of the comparison sorry, The difference is not night and day but it is noticeable. I would imagine if you plug in somewhere that the voltage is further off you would notice even more of a benefit. Handy piece of gear !

 

[FourT6and2]

What I'd love to see is someone measure their mains voltage from the wall with a meter.

Then measure the voltage coming out of the unit to your amp with a meter and compare.

Because the literature from Furman says it has a +/- 5 volt error range. So if the front panel says 120vac, it might actually be 125 or 115. And if y'all say even a 1 volt change into the amp makes a difference, then these things are not really doing anything unless your mains voltage is fluctuating like crazy. And I've never seen that happen in person. I've seen the mains fluctuate fractions of a volt before.

In any event, I emailed Furman and their response was that the voltage regulators (like the 1800 AR) would not be their recommendation for a guitar rig. They'd recommend the PF-R, which as far as I can tell is merely a glorified surge protector and power strip. I'd love to try one. But only if I could return the thing.

 

[TrueTone500]

In any event, I emailed Furman and their response was that the voltage regulators (like the 1800 AR) would not be their recommendation for a guitar rig. They'd recommend the PF-R, which as far as I can tell is merely a glorified surge protector and power strip. I'd love to try one. But only if I could return the thing.

This supports what Brian Thompson said.

 

[JiMB]

I use an AR-1215 at home, more for computer, though I do have my amps plugged in, also.

 

[the4thlast1]

What I'd love to see is someone measure their mains voltage from the wall with a meter.

Then measure the voltage coming out of the unit to your amp with a meter and compare.

Because the literature from Furman says it has a +/- 5 volt error range. So if the front panel says 120vac, it might actually be 125 or 115. And if y'all say even a 1 volt change into the amp makes a difference, then these things are not really doing anything unless your mains voltage is fluctuating like crazy. And I've never seen that happen in person. I've seen the mains fluctuate fractions of a volt before.

In any event, I emailed Furman and their response was that the voltage regulators (like the 1800 AR) would not be their recommendation for a guitar rig. They'd recommend the PF-R, which as far as I can tell is merely a glorified surge protector and power strip. I'd love to try one. But only if I could return the thing.

You are assuming to much,

Yes the P-1800-PFR or the AR-1215 would be good for guitar rigs. Both of them are regulators they do serve a useful function that a standard furman power conditioner does not.

I am an electrian. I do not work on electronics, but I do work on new and renovation commercial and residential buildings. Voltage does fluctuate and a regulator will make a noticeable difference especially with a tube amp. Not a huge difference but a difference for the better.

I'm not trying to sell you one, I dont care either way. Just sharing my experiences

 

[GtarLover]

A regulator won't improve your tone, but it will help keep things more consistent.

This is the main thing right here.
It's in the name Voltage Regulator and is why these cost more than the power conditioner's.
Power conditioners are great for the rack where things are digital and voltage isn't the biggest issue,
However, for tube amps, regulators are the ones to get. Consistent voltage=consistent tone from gig to gig.
This really matters when you are at the mercy of someone else's outlet.

Just my experience, YMMV

 

[TrueTone500]

A regulator won't improve your tone, but it will help keep things more consistent.

This is the main thing right here.
It's in the name Voltage Regulator and is why these cost more than the power conditioner's.
Power conditioners are great for the rack where things are digital and voltage isn't the biggest issue,
However, for tube amps, regulators are the ones to get. Consistent voltage=consistent tone from gig to gig.
This really matters when you are at the mercy of someone else's outlet.

Just my experience, YMMV

This is one of the reasons why I use to like playing through my Rockman rack. At the time, it sounded current, since a lot of bands we using them... One thing I could always count-on was a consistent, pleasing tone.

 

[the4thlast1]

A regulator won't improve your tone, but it will help keep things more consistent.

This is the main thing right here.
It's in the name Voltage Regulator and is why these cost more than the power conditioner's.
Power conditioners are great for the rack where things are digital and voltage isn't the biggest issue,
However, for tube amps, regulators are the ones to get. Consistent voltage=consistent tone from gig to gig.
This really matters when you are at the mercy of someone else's outlet.

Just my experience, YMMV

Agreed... Its consistency that this unit offers, which is really the point of it . For a giging musicians plugging there gear cords into random holes this unit offers a bit more peace of mind that your rig will sound the same and be protected ...

 

[FourT6and2]

What I'd love to see is someone measure their mains voltage from the wall with a meter.

Then measure the voltage coming out of the unit to your amp with a meter and compare.

Because the literature from Furman says it has a +/- 5 volt error range. So if the front panel says 120vac, it might actually be 125 or 115. And if y'all say even a 1 volt change into the amp makes a difference, then these things are not really doing anything unless your mains voltage is fluctuating like crazy. And I've never seen that happen in person. I've seen the mains fluctuate fractions of a volt before.

In any event, I emailed Furman and their response was that the voltage regulators (like the 1800 AR) would not be their recommendation for a guitar rig. They'd recommend the PF-R, which as far as I can tell is merely a glorified surge protector and power strip. I'd love to try one. But only if I could return the thing.

You are assuming to much,

Yes the P-1800-PFR or the AR-1215 would be good for guitar rigs. Both of them are regulators they do serve a useful function that a standard furman power conditioner does not.

I am an electrian. I do not work on electronics, but I do work on new and renovation commercial and residential buildings. Voltage does fluctuate and a regulator will make a noticeable difference especially with a tube amp. Not a huge difference but a difference for the better.

I'm not trying to sell you one, I dont care either way. Just sharing my experiences

Well all I can say is Furman basically implied that the regulators (1800 AR) would be useless for a guitar amp rig. They did say the conditioner (PF-R) would be better. But the PF-R doesn't maintain a constant voltage. It's just a fancy surge protector. The AR is the one that has voltage regulation.

Since you're an electrician, can I ask how much you've seen the voltage fluctuate in a typical, everyday context? 2 volts? 5 volts? 10 volts? Because the Furman regulators have a range of error of 10 volts. If the line voltage fluctuates less than that, then what difference will one of these things actually make? Unless I'm misunderstanding their literature, which implies that it maintains a constant 120VAC, give or take 5 volts in either direction. But this is only for the regulators, which Furman said they wouldn't recommend for a guitar amp. So it's a moot point. Since they recommended the conditioner, and the conditioner is just a surge protector and does not regulate the power... why would anybody buy one over just using a regular surge protector/power strip?

I'm not trying to argue with any malicious intent, I genuinely want to know the benefits of this stuff.