Help on my tourmaster 4212

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Dragonsarc

Dragonsarc

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Hi all,
Ive been a long time reader just recently joined, I have few egnater amps like the tweaker 15, 40, renagade and now the tourmaser had good experience with all 3 except for the tourmaster, I basically inherited it from my uncle its an 08 he barelly used it, I was gigging with it last weekend when it died on me halfway thru the gig
, love the sound the power grid is awesome. The jewel light still on but no sound and no light from the tubes(still has all GT tubes) so i ordered new sets of tubes and installed it, got some Tongsols 5881 power and mix of JJ, Tungsol and Sovtek LPS on pre, biased it to 80 but the volume is really low as in whisper low and all settings are on 12 oclock even the master vol, any one knows whats wrong with it? im thinking that since the fuse didnt pop when the tubes died could it be the power screen resistors? any help would be appreciated.
 
Go here for the proper procedure to set the bias.
http://egnateramps.com/manuals/TM4100_TM4212IM.pdf

It should be set to around 120mVDC with the power grid switches in the 100 watt settings and the full/half swtch in the "FULL" setting. Is the amp weak overall or just certain channels? Switch the loop out when checking this.
 
Hello and an honor to get your reply Sir, k i have set the bias at 120mVDC and the grid is set on 100 watts full setting, loop switch out, yes the amps is overall
weak very little sound is coming out from the speaker on every channel, clean/vintage 1 you can barely hear it and the other 3 channels is really faint and all the eq and vol settings are on 12 oclock same with the master vol.

amp serial# is tm4212-04081219 if that helps any
 
Wow :no:

The amp didn't die because the bias wasn't set to a certain level. I can't believe that Bruce didn't suggest checking the other fuses in the amp, either from a bad output tube, or simply because that's what these amps do, just blow the fuses for no apparent reason. :doh:
 
Ive check all the fuse they all good non of them blew when the tube failed, could it be the Power transformer? ive check the inside and i dont see anything burnt or bloated resistors/caps. Ive also checked the Power/pre with my renegade they all work.
 
any body? or does any one have the schematics for the Tourmaster?
 
Could be any one of a million things. First try plugging your guitar straight into the effects return jack. Turn on the loop and increase the level.. Do you get sound? Should be fairly loud. If you do, the poweramp is working and the problem is elsewhere. Make sure the speakers and cabinet wiring are OK. Please do this and report back. The reason I only asked about the bias was to ascertain where the problem may start. Of course a low bias setting would not cause an extreme volume loss. If you were unable to achieve the correct bias setting, this would help narrow this down to the problem area. If a fuse were blown, the assumption would be you would get no sound at all and no bias current.
 
what tube do you have in v4, the cathode follower?
try a standard groove tube in there if you have one (one of the stock ones that you may have replaced, but still works).
after that, try replacing the PI tube.

try the low input of the amp, or the high input (whatever is opposite of what you're using)...maybe your input jack has come loose.

generally, you're still going to get sound with a bad screen grid resistor, that power tube just wont be working.

opposite is true with the power and output tranny....no sound if either are shot.

try here, if you feel like troubleshooting it yourself.
http://www.geofex.com/ampdbug/lowpower.htm
if you do troubleshoot the amp yourself, make sure you discharge the caps in this amp the RIGHT way, with a cap discharge harness.... merely turning off the power, unplugging from the wall, and leaving the standby switch in play position, contrary to what Nate told me, DOESN"T discharge the lethal voltage from this amp.

you HAVE to dischard the filter caps the right way.

dont believe me. unplug your amp from the wall power source, turn the standby to play, and leave power switch in off position.... put your dmm to DC500v or whatever the highest range is, ground to chassis with black lead, and check your dc voltage either at the reverb tranny return, all v1 pins, or the power tubes. keep one hand in your pocket while doing this. you'll get readings over 100v, if not higher. therefore, they'll need drained below 20v at least, but, i like to go lower to around one.


report back after you follow drain your caps then follow that flowchart i posted.

my guess, as always, is the PI tube, then next would be the cathode follower. then as bruce mentioned, the speaker cable/connectors. input jack. or your guitar cord itself.

have you tried a different guitar and cord?
 
bruce egnater":jgmvgy0h said:
Could be any one of a million things. First try plugging your guitar straight into the effects return jack. Turn on the loop and increase the level.. Do you get sound? Should be fairly loud. If you do, the poweramp is working and the problem is elsewhere. Make sure the speakers and cabinet wiring are OK. Please do this and report back. The reason I only asked about the bias was to ascertain where the problem may start. Of course a low bias setting would not cause an extreme volume loss. If you were unable to achieve the correct bias setting, this would help narrow this down to the problem area. If a fuse were blown, the assumption would be you would get no sound at all and no bias current.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Bruce, done it and its more faint sound of the guitar on max setting on the return loop barely hear it but its there, cabs are workin fine im currently using my renagade with it, ive also checked continuity on all the fuse and they all work (took them off of course to test).




yeti":jgmvgy0h said:
what tube do you have in v4, the cathode follower?
try a standard groove tube in there if you have one (one of the stock ones that you may have replaced, but still works).
after that, try replacing the PI tube.

try the low input of the amp, or the high input (whatever is opposite of what you're using)...maybe your input jack has come loose.

generally, you're still going to get sound with a bad screen grid resistor, that power tube just wont be working.

opposite is true with the power and output tranny....no sound if either are shot.

try here, if you feel like troubleshooting it yourself.
http://www.geofex.com/ampdbug/lowpower.htm
if you do troubleshoot the amp yourself, make sure you discharge the caps in this amp the RIGHT way, with a cap discharge harness.... merely turning off the power, unplugging from the wall, and leaving the standby switch in play position, contrary to what Nate told me, DOESN"T discharge the lethal voltage from this amp.

you HAVE to dischard the filter caps the right way.

dont believe me. unplug your amp from the wall power source, turn the standby to play, and leave power switch in off position.... put your dmm to DC500v or whatever the highest range is, ground to chassis with black lead, and check your dc voltage either at the reverb tranny return, all v1 pins, or the power tubes. keep one hand in your pocket while doing this. you'll get readings over 100v, if not higher. therefore, they'll need drained below 20v at least, but, i like to go lower to around one.


report back after you follow drain your caps then follow that flowchart i posted.

my guess, as always, is the PI tube, then next would be the cathode follower. then as bruce mentioned, the speaker cable/connectors. input jack. or your guitar cord itself.

have you tried a different guitar and cord?
Click to expand...

Thanks Yeti for the reply, k ive switched the PI tube and its the same faint volume sound same results on the low and high inputs, yes ive been using my renegade for now same guitar and chord, ill try egnater first see what they can do I have sent customer service an email then if im out of luck ill try to diagnose it with a buddy of mine his an electrical engineer (too scared to do it my self) hopefully i can get a schematics on the amp.
 
Update: called Josh from Egnater and they are fixing my Tourmaster as we speak!!! awesome customer service!!!!!!!!!! cant wait to get it back :thumbsup: :rock:
 
Got my egnater Tourmaster back every thing works havent really cranked it up just few checks if all channels work, buttons, power selection and bias, thinkin of selling it any takers? how much will it go for? tubes are brand new.
 
Dragonsarc":1yjfcmcx said:
Got my egnater Tourmaster back every thing works havent really cranked it up just few checks if all channels work, buttons, power selection and bias, thinkin of selling it any takers? how much will it go for? tubes are brand new.
Click to expand...
Congrats on getting it back all working great.

My suggestion would be to enjoy the amp for awhile before you sell it. These are great amps.
 
squank":175cl9wx said:
Dragonsarc":175cl9wx said:
Got my egnater Tourmaster back every thing works havent really cranked it up just few checks if all channels work, buttons, power selection and bias, thinkin of selling it any takers? how much will it go for? tubes are brand new.
Click to expand...
Congrats on getting it back all working great.

My suggestion would be to enjoy the amp for awhile before you sell it. These are great amps.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Yeah i really like the amp specially the power modes for each channel its perfect, get good head room on clean and nice saturation on the gains, its great when gigging at a small venue the other thing is its a beast as in weighs a ton :D ill hold on to it for a while hopefully no other hickups along the way, read lot of horror story about the tourmaster :no:

question: Im checkin the bias makin sure its on the recommended setting, heres whats kinda buggin me on Full power all channel 100w bias at 120mVdc but when I change the channels to 50w on Full the bias is at 145 mVdc and on the 20w on Full its on 215mVdc then Half power on 50w channels 60mVdc, 25w is 74mVdc and on 10w its 91mVdc

is the lower the wattage the higher the bias it goes and thats on idle if i start wailling on it it flicks even higher is that normal? any body have any experience with this? i dont want the amp to burn out or burn my tubes quick since I just got it back
 
Wow man, you really scared me. Thought I would have to get my old navy textbook & give a lesson on Static Dissipation wattage.

Instead I read the Egnater instruction manual. The bias tester is active at full power only, hence your query readings.

Don't blame you for being paranoid though
 
yeah. pay no attention if you aren't in 100w on idle, to the bias readings.

i did this at practice once....put some different output tubes in it, then biased it, left the meter on, and then switched to half power....and was seeing all kinds of higher readings than normal....then remembered!
 
Thanks for the reply Daviedog and Yeti, amps good to go then, 1 more question I dont really remember the OD channels being hum noisy is that normal? specially on the 4th channel if i get close to tweak the EQ the guitar picks up the electric hum from the transformer i have to be about 2 to 3 feet away, I have tried all my other guitar and its the same any input on that?
 
Dragonsarc":355pnwxp said:
Thanks for the reply Daviedog and Yeti, amps good to go then, 1 more question I dont really remember the OD channels being hum noisy is that normal? specially on the 4th channel if i get close to tweak the EQ the guitar picks up the electric hum from the transformer i have to be about 2 to 3 feet away, I have tried all my other guitar and its the same any input on that?
Click to expand...

yep. same here.

it's the nature of that amp.

my 5150 does it too though, jsyk.

think about shielding your guitars internal cavites and pickguards with copper foil shielding tape, and properly grounding. it will cut it down significantly.

much worse when my dimmer is on from the diningroom light upstairs too.
 
How do you know it's hum from the transformer?
Do you use s/c pups?
Try different locations. Does your residence have more than 1 wiring harness?
For amp, you may use foil to shield transformer. Run wire from a chassis screw to earth on outlet receptacle. A Faraday cage. Running down hum is hell on earth?
Any service manual will have 3 times the verbiage on hum problems than any other problem.

Had an intermintent hum hassle for years. Ended up being the soldering station..
 
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