Herbert Clean Channel Question

[Me]

Hello,

I was playing my Herbie again last night on the clean channel. I think there might be a problem with it...

When I hit notes reasonably hard on the clean channel it distorts. The herbert clean is supposed to have quite a lot of headroom though isn't it and the clean stay sparkling clean? Sure, I'm hitting the strings "quite" hard, but not abnormally hard. It's not like I'm doing a crazy kid playing punk style, just funky full chords, or accenting particular notes in a jazz style. It's quite annoying as it's putting me off using ch1 at all! I never remember this happening on my first herbert (that got swapped cuz either it ate loads of tubes or else I got a ridiculous amount of duff ruby EL34s!), but it's been happening quite a while with this one, possibly ever since it got sent to me. The clean was one of the main reasons I bought it, although I haven't been using it recently much. Can anyone tell me if they get anything similar? I'm trying to work out possible reasons/solutions.

*I noticed it playing with my guitar that I use 99% of the time; a Parker Fly Mojo with a seymour duncan Jazz and JB. It also has piezo pickups. I don't think there's anything wrong with the electronics in it! I looked at it and cleaned all the switches etc. I have tried lowering the pickup height to as far from the strings as it goes! It does it with both a mono guitar lead where the mag pickups are buffered/active (so they can be mixed with the piezo if selected), or with a stereo lead (where the mag pickups are unbuffered [and the piezos come out the other half the lead]).

*I tried it with my other guitar; a Jackson Dinky with a seymour JB in the bridge. Same kinda fuzz on hard-ish string hits.

* I use the ch1 with everything at 12 o'clock. The volume knob is between 8 & 9 o'clock.

* It still breaks up just the same with the FX unit completely removed, and nothing between guitar and amp (except the lead!)

* It's the same with a lower gain tube put in V1 or V2

* It currently has lightly used 4x Harma EL34s, and 2x Ruby 6L6s Peter put in it when I was sent this replacement. It's only been used at a decent volume once since then!

Suggestions? Ideas? Thoughts? Things to try? I don't really want to have to get this posted back to germany again since it's about £60 or so, or spend another £100 or so that I haven't got retubing it again, only to find it makes no difference.

At some point I'll take my guitars round someone's house and try them on someone elses amp just to be definitely sure, or I'll drag all my old triaxis and EL34 100/100 rig back together to test them, but I've been really busy the past few months and may not get much of a chance for the next few weeks either. Quiet moments at work is the only time I get spare, and then I have none of my stuff here!

Obviously this might be on all channels, but the others are distorted anyway so it's harder to tell...

 

[Tabs]

Having the exact same sort of issue with my VH4 right now man... I'm sending the amp to Uwe next week I think when we have a short break in shows.

 

[Peter Diezel]

Do You expect to push a humbucker hard into an input stage without distortion ?

The pickup delivers up to 2 volt of spikes into the first gain stage !!!
So You need a low input on the amp. The other solution would be to
be a mod on the input stage.

 

[itsme]

That's why I use my low-output humbuckers. 7-9K ohm, max. Nice, clean signal. For the life of me I don't know why people send high-output pickups into high-gain amps. Those 14-20K pickups were made for low gain amps, like plexi's and 800's.

 

[Peter Diezel]

We will find a solution for our members Tabs and Me, but that
means to decrease the input sensivity.

I will call my car dealer tomorrow:

"Sir, I want to push my gas pedal very hard but like to drive slowly at the same time"

"No problem Peter, we reduce the power of the engine"

Maybe a bad example, but the same "PROBLEM"

..........

 

[Sacha]

I found this happened to me at low volumes but once the amp was turned up it didn't happen anymore...

 

[Philipp]

... The other solution would be to be a mod on the input stage.

is it possible to optimize that on the amp??

(i have the same problem... humbucker with 14,6 kOhm and a very strong style of playing -and no time to reduce the volume poti or for pickup select)

lg, philipp

 

[duesentrieb]

Coil splits are easy to install guys . . . .

 

[Me]

Oh, ok. Fine if it's normal. I'm just used to MIDI preamps like the Triaxis or 2120 where there's extra input gain control, rather than amp heads. I just didn't remember it as much on my first herbert, so worried/wondered a bit, but maybe it was exactly the same. I have downtuned another semitone and got heavier gauge strings since then too. Not to worry then, I'm sure I'll be fine without a mod and just make sure I play lighter when I go clean!

I already have coil splits on both my guitars and obviously it's far less apparent on SC. I guess in the past I was just used to going instantly from a lead sound to a clean sound with the JB (where I hadn't any time to change pickup but compensating with the extra input gain controls on the previous preamps I've owned. I'd rather just learn to improve my soft technique than mess about with the herbert though, so no worries!

It only really happens on lower strings down the bottom anyway where there's more power, and I'm a bit out of practice as I've been so busy so maybe I'm playing a bit like a spazz and harder than usual anyway as I've probably lost some pick control. As long as it's perfectly normal and the same as everyone elses that's fine!

 

[Me]

P.S. I assume this is where it hits the first valve V1 straight on the input, and the volume knob makes no difference if it's cranked right down or wound up more? Does this same V1 input tube get it's gain increased to a larger amount to create distortion on the other channels or is it always a "clean" tube, and other tubes (like V2) give the distortion sounds? I'd naively thought since it's renowned for be, not only a great amp, but a high gain one that lots of people would be using guitars of a style that come with high output humbuckers. I guess it's voiced more for ultimate classic tone than a high gain amp with very marvellous other channels though.

If a mod is very easy (i.e. I can just increase/decrease the value of a resistor very slightly) then I could well be interested still if it won't affect the general tone of Ch1...

ENDITOL: I'll see if it's any better next time I play loud too. I would have though if it's distorted at low volumes that would be crossover distortion though, to do with bias, and then wouldn't be apparent only when I hit things harder. I may as well check the bias in case it's drifted when I get a chance. I'm still VERY wary of Ruby tubes after them going so often in my first herbert (that Peter couldn't find anything wrong with), but never any of the other tube makes, and this one still has a pair of Ruby 6L6s.

(I have henceforth renamed this thread from "problem" to "question" too! )

 

[Peter Diezel]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH, thank You very much !!!!

Don´t want to be rude, just had a hard time yesterday

So I will make some tests this evening to find a prober solution
for the "QUESTION"

I will tell You my experience as soon as possible.

We should name it the "vandalism mod"

 

[Me]

We should name it the "vandalism mod"

That sounds worrying! If it changes the tone of channel 1, rather than just gives a tiny bit more headroom, I'm not sure I want it! I guess I can change it back again if I don't like it! I used to do repairs to surface mount SMT mobile phones so my soldering skills are pretty good!

Thanks a lot Peter; you're the man!

 

[Bato]

What about V2 for the Cleanchannel???

 

[Peter Diezel]

It´s simple to mod the input stage, but it will affect
the distortion channels.

 

[Bato]

Right! And for the Cleanchannel there is Mastervol. 2! And it´s Midi!