Herbert Mk I vs Mk II

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glpg80

glpg80

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I'm really having a hard time finding explanations of the differences between the two.

For example: someone showing the strengths of the new revision that A: can be shown as a weak link in the herbert Mk I, and B: shown over a recording/mic.

I have heard a Herbert Mk I live and i dislike it's live character. I have heard by ear that the Mk II fixes these problems, but i cant find anyone showing this strength anywhere.

Considering all other variables ignored, what was aimed as a fix with the second revision and has anyone owned both that can give honest opinions?

I've always liked the modern and complex tonality of the herberts, i just dislike the lack of cutting attitude that i heard in the mark I. Is the herbert mark I or mark II the right revision or should i be looking somewhere else?

Thanks ahead of time :cheers:
 
Maybe it wasn't cutting because the EQ wasn't set up correct for the mix.
 
jonl":2u8r0yf1 said:
Maybe it wasn't cutting because the EQ wasn't set up correct for the mix.
Click to expand...

I'm not looking for plausible causes in this thread or to talk about all of the unknown variables. This is strictly a mk I vs mk II question and nothing more. What was the mk II aimed to fix? What was done and why? I am hoping owners of said amplifiers or papa himself can chime in.

And for the record it was not the user, it was the JCM800 1x12 combo the rhythm player was using :(
 
Never had any issues cutting through with my Mk1. It's all in the eq. Jack the mid-cut up too much and it's gonna get buried. I was playing alongside a Marshall rig too.
 
I believe, if I recall correctly, the only differences between the two versions is that the transformers were changed to allow for a little bit more headroom especially on the clean channel. Overall I think it made the second version a touch "brighter and heavier?"

My buddy runs a Herbert Mk I live and has no issues cutting in the mix... he is tuned pretty low too.

I honestly think there are too many variables to rule out before assuming it was not a user error or "bad live character"... (EQ set up, possible tube issue, bias issue, mic placement, etc...) or it could be that is just how he likes his amp to sound in the mix... not everyone likes to cut like a knife haha.

I will try to dig up some more info for you.
 
If you search through the forum, you'll find the thread from Peter Diezel explaining why what was done and what consequences it had on the tone.

As far as I remember the main issue was that Mk1 would get to hot with certain tubes and that was fixed (something was done with the output-transformer). In the whole process Peter then also adjusted the clean channel to stay clean even when being used with extremly high-output pickups. As a result of this change on ch1 the sound of ch2 and 3 were slightly affected (since they ch2/3 share ch1's gainstages. The extra brightness on Ch1 was added at some other point of time. You can do this modification on a Mk1 also (or any kind of modification. Note that Peter adjust the circuitry all the time).

Off topic about cutting in the mix: I had that problem. In my case Mids at 90%, mid-cut intensity at 40% and channel+mid-cut volume at 80-90%, as well as V30/K100mix in my cab and some adjustment on the preamp by Peter did the trick.
 
Kev":zfwewu2b said:
If you search through the forum, you'll find the thread from Peter Diezel explaining why what was done and what consequences it had on the tone.

As far as I remember the main issue was that Mk1 would get to hot with certain tubes and that was fixed (something was done with the output-transformer). In the whole process Peter then also adjusted the clean channel to stay clean even when being used with extremly high-output pickups. As a result of this change on ch1 the sound of ch2 and 3 were slightly affected (since they ch2/3 share ch1's gainstages. The extra brightness on Ch1 was added at some other point of time. You can do this modification on a Mk1 also (or any kind of modification. Note that Peter adjust the circuitry all the time).

Off topic about cutting in the mix: I had that problem. In my case Mids at 90%, mid-cut intensity at 40% and channel+mid-cut volume at 80-90%, as well as V30/K100mix in my cab and some adjustment on the preamp by Peter did the trick.
Click to expand...

Exactly what i was looking for on the detailed info.

Thank you sir :rock:

I will admit i have never really been a diezel fan, however my heart has always had a soft spot for a herbert. I love the modern voicing and under a mic they just slay. I am still looking for an amplifier that can do the prog metal modern voicing and keep coming back to a herbert.
 
You're welcome! But like I said, this is just as far as I remember. You should rather find that old thread to be sure (I know searching for an old thread can be a pain the backside sometimes).
Cheers ;)
 
Kev":277zds02 said:
As far as I remember the main issue was that Mk1 would get to hot with certain tubes and that was fixed (something was done with the output-transformer).
Click to expand...

I'd be willing to bet new transformers were spec'd with an adjusted Primary impedance. When designing an output stage for an amplifier that can use multiple tube types, one draws composite characteristics (load lines) for each tube type as they would operate in the circuit, and when the best nominal impedance is selected for each valve type, then the designer shoots for an impedance figure that fits comfortably within all those parameters, essentially finding a "middle ground" for all the valve types given the B+ voltage they will be operating from. From there, it's simply a matter of making sure bias voltage is appropriate for the given valve type and screen grid resistors are adequate for all valve types specified.
 
Interesting thread. I'm curious about the MkII. My MkI is hands-down the best amp i've owned for metal/. anybody else use the mid-cut religiously? I think I saw a "Rig-Ru-around" w/Andy Wood and he says something about this...and I feel like I can hear the differences he mentions; something about the way it pushes (when cut).
 
Lazy to start a new thread I guess i'll just leech on this this thread about a Herbert MK2....

may I know how tight could a Herbert Mk2 goes as far as going towards metal chugging riff style?
comparing a VHT UL whats the difference is the Herbert to a VHT UL?
would a Herbert 180W be tamed down to a 120watt?

have a Herbert Gas lately and it strike me harder when I heard a Blue faced Herbert can be done...
 
If you want a super tight Herbert, get bass and deep as low as you can do it with your cab. The cab is 50% of the tightness. Think about Diezel FL, RL with diff Speakers.
Herbert can handle almost everything.
Ok the amp is different voiced than the VHT(never played one) but it´s hard to compare any Diezel with other brands. IMHO they loose all compared to Diezel(they Sound like toys), but this is a matter of pers. choice and style.

Yesterday I figured out that i like to lower my pickups and the amp gets a woody, tight tone. I love it! Ok, a little less output, but with the 180W, it f***in doesnt matter. :D
 
Bato":114purf0 said:
If you want a super tight Herbert, get bass and deep as low as you can do it with your cab. The cab is 50% of the tightness. Think about Diezel FL, RL with diff Speakers.
Herbert can handle almost everything.
Ok the amp is different voiced than the VHT(never played one) but it´s hard to compare any Diezel with other brands. IMHO they loose all compared to Diezel(they Sound like toys), but this is a matter of pers. choice and style.

Yesterday I figured out that i like to lower my pickups and the amp gets a woody, tight tone. I love it! Ok, a little less output, but with the 180W, it f***in doesnt matter. :D
Click to expand...


tighter amps sounds more aggressive..and your right cab also plays a part in tightening up the bass response... till this extend I have checked out a wonderful clip and the Herbert sounded sweet but its kinda sag too.. till I saw the + and - switch position below channel 2... my question is does the + and - switch serve only for tighter response for channel 2 ? or it serves for all channel 2 and channel 3?
 
You guess right. The - is a kind of cool rock n roll switch. When you turn the master. Bit higher the sound became a giant wall of sonic pressure.
Dude it's like Mike Tyson is doing some sparring with you.
Switching to plus adds lot of gain and distortion. Of corse the tightness moves a little bit backwards.
And that's the reason I never could decide, which position to choose. And you can nearly use any eq position and it works for both voicings.

And I bought the tightest Diezel cab with the fastest attack to handle the tons of base Herbert can produce.
 
oh my poor... it should be a more/less gain switch then ....maybe I should wait for more revision of the Herbert to come by if in any way Peter Diezel would start to make it more open less compressed and with the older pink faced Herbert character capabilities by a flick of a switch... we see ;)
 
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