How do I get this 80's rhythm sound? (Ratt and Savatage)

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nigelpkay

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For you Rig Talk producers, what sort of reverb (or delay, or both) is used on these rhythm tracks?
I love that thick ambient smear without losing the clarity, but I'm having a hard time dialing it in with Apple Logic plugins. Am I screwed without 80's outboard gear? Is this Hall? Plate? a mix? What settings? When I do it, it either gets too boomy and cavernous, or too messy/raspy.
I know it's kind of an "out of date" sound nowadays, but I love it, it's what I grew up with and most used to.

Ratt - What You Give is What You Get


Savatage - Strange Wings
 
I love it too.. can you post any samples of what you have so far? In general, for RATT anyway, it was a short slap back delay with a bit of verb used to give it more space or have it appear as if it sits further back. What i mean by that, is that the guitar doesn't sound like it is a mic right up against the grill, sounds more like you are listening to an amp in a larger room or further back but it still isn't washed out.
 
Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for.. that "sits further back" sound without being washed out. I didn't know if that's the function of a delay or reverb. I've used reverb only so far, usually a big hall type, but it gets too washed out at the point where it's as "far back" as I want. I will try to dial back the reverb and add some of the slap back delay.
 
Yes, apply a short delay first just to get that instant repeat line but make sure it really is only one and it is a tad lower in volume. Then play with the reverb, a bit of hall reverb perhaps but not to the point where it feels like someone is playing in a tunnel where the sound swirls. You just want a hint of it.

PS- had never heard Strange Wings before, BIG time sounds like old Scorps the way it starts off and the way the lead comes in. I liked that. Same thing though, short slap back and a bit of verb. Make sure you can still hear the detail in the chords though.
 
On a side note, I had no idea Alex Skolnick had some time in Savatage…

 
Awesome thanks will give it a try. If you are not familiar with Savatage, check out that whole album that Strange Wings is from: "Hall of the Mountain King". Guitar sound is thick, huge and heavy. Similar sound to Ratt actually but more on the heavy metal side than the LA sound. Both guys are using Charvels with JB's. I'm pretty sure Warren Demartini was a SD-1 > Marshall, while Criss Oliva from Savatage was SD-1 > a Laney or preamp/rack system. But it's the 80's production that fills it out ;)
 
Demartini was a stock Marshall guy or Marshall with tweaks guy depending on who you talk to and did a little reamping to get his pushed lead tones on some albums. The Furman EQ also helped for those tones. Oliva I read was fond of two SD-1's chained together and opted to use the clean channel of a lot of his amps. Either way, i am a boost my 800 with an SD-1 guy myself so i can get tones in that ballpark. The rest is feel and hands.
 
Kapo_Polenton":iv2epb9u said:
Oliva I read was fond of two SD-1's chained together and opted to use the clean channel of a lot of his amps. Either way, i am a boost my 800 with an SD-1 guy myself so i can get tones in that ballpark. The rest is feel and hands.
Click to expand...

I always wondered about the story of the two SD-1's chained together, one with the tone rolled down, one with the tone rolled up. But I read an interview recently with an old guitar tech of his that made sense, he said the one with the tone rolled down was on all the time and used for rhythm, and the second one with the tone up was engaged just for leads.
 
you probably want to do a wet/dry mix as well. So have a completely dry guitar track sitting "up front" then have an effected guitar track sitting behind it and "off to the side" so to speak...then do that in stereo. The wet should have a touch of chorus and verb

Can you get close to the tone when you are standing in the room playing (so from your amp?)...you then want to off axis a close mic and move around the room to find where it sounds best at the level of your ears and put a mic there as well..... I have seen so many guys stand in front of their amp and go "it sounds awesome" then put a mic at speaker level, but what they are hearing isn't at speaker level so they are capturing a different sound
 
I am a big Fan of Mr Oliva and have traded emails with Chris Caffery and met him a few times. Both Sd-1 on all the time 300ms of echo 3 to 5 repeats a very light touch of chorus he never played dry. Its on all the time. He played into low input of Marshall. Switched to Laney for the Edge of thorns album. Early Stuff was a Yamaha bass amp. Strange wings and every song except for Hall of the Mountain on Hall of The Mountain king were 1 one step down Aka d standard. Hall is Drop C. Directly from Mr Caffery. One of the most underrated players of all time

Mwal
 
nigelpkay":66ippkjz said:
For you Rig Talk producers, what sort of reverb (or delay, or both) is used on these rhythm tracks?
I love that thick ambient smear without losing the clarity, but I'm having a hard time dialing it in with Apple Logic plugins. Am I screwed without 80's outboard gear? Is this Hall? Plate? a mix? What settings? When I do it, it either gets too boomy and cavernous, or too messy/raspy.
I know it's kind of an "out of date" sound nowadays, but I love it, it's what I grew up with and most used to.

Ratt - What You Give is What You Get


Savatage - Strange Wings
Click to expand...
OUTDATED???
Man these are the tones I live for! Even when I play with bands doing more modern/brutal stuff I still dial it in like it was the 80's. To me the tones guys like Toto, Styx and Kansas were using up to Dokken, Ratt and even some heavier stuff like Accept is where it is at for my tastes. You;ll never catch me doing the whole scooped mid, super tight sound. Like I said, not even when I play that stuff.
 
Even some of these modern rock bands play with a nice mid heavy tone at least live...I saw Five Finger Death Punch a few weeks back and no scooped tone live..it was full of mids. But the recorded tone that they have is TOTALLY different. You have to have mids to cut... :rock:
 
skoora":2bs0o9mx said:
On a side note, I had no idea Alex Skolnick had some time in Savatage…

Click to expand...

I saw Savatage at a club in Minneapolis with Alex. It was awesome. He did a great job.

Man that was a long time ago....
 
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