Lexicon PCM80/81 LOOPING - true true true!

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italoop

italoop

Active member
Hey

did you know you can upgrade your PCM80 to up to 42+ seconds of delay memory on 6 delay lines? Each one gets 42 secs!
PCM81 can't be upgraded but it already offers a generous 10+ seconds on board.
Here is a quick looping scenario, setup with a 42 seconds stereo delay loop, sound on sound style. In mono it can be doubled to 85 secs!
I used the PCM81 to add delayed autopanning harmonies and a Hall reverb....
Real speakers or a nice headphone set are your friends here! Thanks.
Enjoy! :m9:

 
Timely. I finally ordered some Simms for my 80. I’ll have to settle for an Orville for post processing.
 
Excellent Taste!
Superior Flavors!
...of course you do...

:rawk: (y)
I was surfing your website this past weekend. I was looking at stuff for my eclipse. I mainly use my eclipse for metal and rarely play clean. Which of your presets would you recommend?
 
I was surfing your website this past weekend. I was looking at stuff for my eclipse. I mainly use my eclipse for metal and rarely play clean. Which of your presets would you recommend?


Maybe you want to look st the Blue Library : Delays.
 
Very nice Italo! Inspirational. I am a huge fan of Fripp and Richard Pinhas (I believe he uses an Orville).
I upgraded the memory on my 80 for long looping.
This is not like a conventional 'looper', it is delay-based "looping", which is so much more interesting. One must continue playing to keep it alive, the benefit being that you can gradually shift musical modes, keys, moods etc. Then you also have the option of hitting "Bypass" to play lead over the loop while it repeats, set on high feedback.
On the 81 are the pitch shift voices 1,2,3,4 for left, right, left, right, going into the Hall reverb, all in one preset? Wow.
What intervals? 4ths, 5ths, Octaves?
Is the 81 preset available in one of your libraries?
Do I understand you correctly that the 80 (with memory upgrade) can have multiple long delay lines in one preset?
I have tried something like this with my H8000FW Skew Loops into the Eclipse Chorus Canyon, which adds a sweet glowing aura to the loops.
But it would be great to add pitch shifting to the voices. Phenomenal.
I have sent in my '96 80 for service, a battery change and whatever maintenance they can do to keep it in good shape including having a look at the display capacitors. The display is a bit dimmer than my '99 81.
I will be trying your looping ideas as soon as I get it back. With a SansAmp PSA 1.1 preamp!
Much appreciation for your sharing of knowledge.
Good stuff man!
 
Very nice Italo! Inspirational. I am a huge fan of Fripp and Richard Pinhas (I believe he uses an Orville).
I upgraded the memory on my 80 for long looping.
This is not like a conventional 'looper', it is delay-based "looping", which is so much more interesting. One must continue playing to keep it alive, the benefit being that you can gradually shift musical modes, keys, moods etc. Then you also have the option of hitting "Bypass" to play lead over the loop while it repeats, set on high feedback.
On the 81 are the pitch shift voices 1,2,3,4 for left, right, left, right, going into the Hall reverb, all in one preset? Wow.
What intervals? 4ths, 5ths, Octaves?
Is the 81 preset available in one of your libraries?
Do I understand you correctly that the 80 (with memory upgrade) can have multiple long delay lines in one preset?
I have tried something like this with my H8000FW Skew Loops into the Eclipse Chorus Canyon, which adds a sweet glowing aura to the loops.
But it would be great to add pitch shifting to the voices. Phenomenal.
I have sent in my '96 80 for service, a battery change and whatever maintenance they can do to keep it in good shape including having a look at the display capacitors. The display is a bit dimmer than my '99 81.
I will be trying your looping ideas as soon as I get it back. With a SansAmp PSA 1.1 preamp!
Much appreciation for your sharing of knowledge.
Good stuff man!

Thank you, Kairos!
Yeah, Fripp and Richard. I did some work for them in the past....
Yes, it's delay based looping, not sampling looping and as you very well know... you have to keep it going and changing, which is the most interesting way to do looping, I agree.
I used 4ths, 5ths and an octave high intervals... and set the 4 pans to move around, mosulated by a single LFO generating different waveforms... so the 4 shifters autopan differently. They go into the Hall and around it...
I didn't store the preset as it's a very easy one to program.
The H8000 can do it all very easily.

All the best
Italo
 
Kairos....
I was thinking about your statement regarding delay based looping.
As you say, it evolves and changes... so harmonies, modes, music can change along and that is way more interesting than take a loop, freeze it and let it run forever.
Now... there are ways one can take a short loop and freeze it, like a single note... then process it thru pitch shifters to create harmonies that change in time.
On the PCM80/81:
the 4 shifters > Hall is an algorithm on the Pitch FX card (Pcm80) or available on board on the Pcm81.
Here's an unique great feature on these PCMs! When you patch a controller to a parameter, there is not only the usual min/max parameter value you want to switch between as in most machines. The PCM can have up to 8 pivot points in a patch... so up to 8 parameter values can be assigned to a controller which will step thru them.
Now think about harmonies! Building 4 patches in which all 4 pitch shifters are patched to a MIDI CC with values 0/1/2/3/4/5/6/7 and each pitch shifter has a different interval assigned to each of those steps.
Now you get 8 chords thru with your single note loop will be transposed to....
Every thought about that?

*******************************************
Now....
you have an H8000FW.... pretty much THE best machine available for effects.
There is one preset I put in the factory ones, among many others, which uses the same techniques described above for the PCM.
I created that poreset in a Danish studio, while recording with a band. We needed the singer to improvise on top of a chordal sequence of voices... but we didn't have a choir... so... rec a vocal note and step it thru the harmonizers.... right?
You can listen to the recording of the tune "Solemn" here... just scroll down and you'll see it:
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/audio/
The preset on your H8000 is 733 YOUR HARMONY DEVICE
Mono loop (max 10 sec) >3 shifters with pre-settable values>autopanner >verb. Build a sequence of chords with tune1/2/3 parameters & step thru it with triggers or ext. triggers( Tip 2 & Ring 2). <assign1> is volume pedal to loop. <assign2> is loop feedback. Great 4 E-BOW pads!!! Loop a C Root tone & step thru chords while you solo on top.

Nothing beats these two machines at creative tasks like this!

Have fun.
I
 
...OR you can build an 84 mono loop on the PCM80, based on pentatonic lines... and process it thru an Orville or H8000, running my presets!

Like this;


:rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk: :rawk:
 
That is a lot of information to digest. I'm nearly a total beginner on these units. I know I need to spend much more time on all of them.
"On the PCM80/81:
the 4 shifters > Hall is an algorithm on the Pitch FX card (Pcm80) or available on board on the Pcm81."
Italo, can you recommend a PCM 81 factory preset with this algorithm? Maybe I can get started working with it.
"H8000 is 733 YOUR HARMONY DEVICE"
Yes, in the Delays - Loops Bank 7. I'll give it a try. At the moment I've begun the learning experience with only the 2 in 2 out presets. That will keep me busy for a long time.
 
That is a lot of information to digest. I'm nearly a total beginner on these units. I know I need to spend much more time on all of them.
"On the PCM80/81:
the 4 shifters > Hall is an algorithm on the Pitch FX card (Pcm80) or available on board on the Pcm81."
Italo, can you recommend a PCM 81 factory preset with this algorithm? Maybe I can get started working with it.
"H8000 is 733 YOUR HARMONY DEVICE"
Yes, in the Delays - Loops Bank 7. I'll give it a try. At the moment I've begun the learning experience with only the 2 in 2 out presets. That will keep me busy for a long time.


You can use any as I do. Just null the modulation patche first, then start programming it.
 
I was surfing your website this past weekend. I was looking at stuff for my eclipse. I mainly use my eclipse for metal and rarely play clean. Which of your presets would you recommend?

you should check out his DL8000R presets.

fantastico !!!!
 
A package of looping (long delay) with pitch and modulation presets for the H8000 would be glorious.
I could learn from them, how to build my own.
 
A package of looping (long delay) with pitch and modulation presets for the H8000 would be glorious.
I could learn from them, how to build my own.
Kairos
you have a whole looping bank in your H8000. Use those presets in DSP A and feed the loop to DSP B where you can load ANY preset for post processing. You have it all already... just need to get familiar and use it. It's under your nose!
 
Yes, that is what I need to learn how to do. I am amazed to learn, upon closer reading of the presets manual, that there so many useful looping presets that are not monolithic! Theoretically that means that another i.e. modulation program can be loaded into DSP B, using the routing of A>B, correct? Wow!
By some internet sleuthing I've learned that Fripp, at one point, was sending his 2 H8000 loops into his 2 H3500s on the Breathing Canyon program.
Here I was sending Skew Loops into the Eclipse on Chorus Canyon. But if it can be done all on the H8000, even better.
I will try an H8000 loop in DSP A feeding program 6515 H3000 Breathing Canyon into DSP B.
But here's the rub: Is there a conflict in sending a 48k looping preset A into a 96k modulation preset B built into one monolithic preset? Are they compatible or must the programs in DSP A and B be on the same 48 or 96 or can they be mixed? Will there be enough memory? Please bear with my ignorance on this. I'm learning.
If possible this would free the Eclipse to do something else.
In the meantime I must learn how to take a looping preset using DSP A and load another program into DSP B for one super program.
Apologies for derailing your Lexicon thread into an Eventide discussion. Perhaps a new thread is in order.
When I get the PCM 80 back from the shop I sure will be working with it and the 81 to get your looping config set up.
Much gratitude!
 
Yes, that is what I need to learn how to do. I am amazed to learn, upon closer reading of the presets manual, that there so many useful looping presets that are not monolithic! Theoretically that means that another i.e. modulation program can be loaded into DSP B, using the routing of A>B, correct? Wow!
By some internet sleuthing I've learned that Fripp, at one point, was sending his 2 H8000 loops into his 2 H3500s on the Breathing Canyon program.
Here I was sending Skew Loops into the Eclipse on Chorus Canyon. But if it can be done all on the H8000, even better.
I will try an H8000 loop in DSP A feeding program 6515 H3000 Breathing Canyon into DSP B.
But here's the rub: Is there a conflict in sending a 48k looping preset A into a 96k modulation preset B built into one monolithic preset? Are they compatible or must the programs in DSP A and B be on the same 48 or 96 or can they be mixed? Will there be enough memory? Please bear with my ignorance on this. I'm learning.
If possible this would free the Eclipse to do something else.
In the meantime I must learn how to take a looping preset using DSP A and load another program into DSP B for one super program.
Apologies for derailing your Lexicon thread into an Eventide discussion. Perhaps a new thread is in order.
When I get the PCM 80 back from the shop I sure will be working with it and the 81 to get your looping config set up.
Much gratitude!

Looping presets are not big algorithms. They can take a lot of delay memory though, that's the reason why most of them don't run at 96KHz.
Monolithic is a mode reserved to those monster algorithms that won't run on a single DSP or won't run at 96KHz... thus a need to find more resources from the second DSP. We implemented monolithic because there are about 7 different types of resources DSPs use, one being delay memory, which is shared by delays, reverbs, pitch shifters, many filters.... IS any of these resources is teken up in full by an algorithm, it may need to run monolithic and it may not run at 96KHz OR it can only in monolithic mode.
Now, when you read that "96" symbol on the presets names, it doesn't mean a preset *must/ca* be loaded at 96KHz only. That simply tells you it can be loaded at high sampling frequencies but you can also use it at lower ones. There is no reason to run the H8000 at 96KHz unless you are doing specific production work. 48KHz is very much the sweet spot to use this machine. So you will be able to run a looping preset in DSP A and a processing one in DSP B, using a series routing A>B. You can even modify a looping algorithm in Vsig so that it only runs in mono or stereo, not in quad or 5.1 and even using less delay memory.... an operation that will allow you to add a good nu,mber of presets in the same preset, looping+efx in DSP A. But you need to use Vsig and konw your paths thru it.
You seem to be confused by sampling frequency and monolithic.... just remember this.... the whole machine runs on a single sampling freq.; you can't use different values for two presets. Once a sampling freq is selected, that will run on both DSPs. 96KHz wants a lot of power and resources! Actually it requires twice the power than lower frequencies, that's why there's no need to use it unless a specifc job requires it.
Seems to me you need to go thru the manual with attention to details.
 
For the Orville/H8000 loopheads.... this may be interesting and useful. A piece of history!

Something I wrote long ago... on those beautiful Scott Gilfix presets:


The REICH LOOPS Presets Saga! -Part ONE-
To get the most out of these 3 great looping tools, we advice to become familiar with the great
music of one of the most important living american composers and with the rich conceptual aspects
of his artworks. As a general cultural knowledge pleasure, a look to his nice website is desirable,
The Steve Reich Website , to know more about this true contemporary genius, New Yorker
STEVE REICH.
A classic aspect of Reich music is repetition and rhythmic variations of it. Reich used (and probably
still uses) tape loops and multi-instruments ensembles.
Very often an instrument would play a pattern, a melodic and rhythmic figure, and repeat it...then
another instrument would step in, playing the same thing, but starting on a different beat or fraction
of it. Eventually other instruments would do the same or add new patterns and offset repetitions of
them...and so on. It's a game of rhythmic phases, things that eventually meet after many cycles...or
never meet at all.
Just to give you a brief and rough description. There is *definitely* more to it ! ! ! Check his
discography if you want to drop your jaws!
REICH LOOPS #1/#2/#3 Presets, available *only* in OS 3.002/4.0 ORVILLE/H8000, in their full
blown multi-channel format and in DSP7500 (only #1 and #2) in stereo reduced format.
These presets were created by Eventide Preset Engineer, "evil genius", Scott Gilfix, after listening
to a concert in Manhattan, in 2002.
He was so fascinated by Reich music that he got into these looping variations and built them for one
of his friends, the great Todd Reynolds (Orville user), violin player in Reich orchestra. “That's what
is going on in Steve's music”....basically was the comment of Todd , while listening to these presets,
in laughing and surprise.
Once again Scott "nailed" it!
They use the system TIMER.
The TIMER is pretty much the same as the Tap Tempo function, available under [tempo] in the
SETUP area.
Timer is *only* used with some looping presets that use a lot of delay memory (longdelay
modules).
Timer triggers time counting in seconds, not BPM. It can work in "restart" mode (“Tap to start
counting/tap to stop it/next tap will start counting from 0 seconds”) or in "continue" mode (“Tap to
start counting/tap to stop it/next tap will start counting from the time value that was set by second
tap”).
 
The REICH LOOPS Presets Saga! -Part TWO-

REICH LOOPS #1 (Orville-preset 24/Bank 7)
The algorithm has 4x35 seconds mono loops and 4x8 seconds delays.
Loop1 feeds Delay5
Loop2 feeds Delay6
Loop3 feeds Delay7
Loop4 feeds Delay8
All of them can be panned everywhere in a quad speakers setup and have dedicated levels.
Let's take a look at the most important menupages, to understand what's going on in this arsenal:
[loops]
*input* sets the input level to the selected loop
*loop #* selects which loop you are sending audio to
*loop* horizontal bar monitor that shows audio level present in the selected loop
*timer* is a monitor that displays the length of the time set by the system TIMER (you'll find it
under SETUP)
This is basically telling you the time elapsed between two taps of your foot on a footswitch, used to
start the TIMER count and to stop it.
*timer equals* this is a bit confusing parameter, in the way it is presented. It actually changes the 4
delays (not the loops!) lengths according to timer length: T_Delay x value.
If *timer* shows 1.000sec and *timer equals: 1 bar* and any t_delay parameter is set to "whole
note", then it's time value will be 1 second. By raising the *timer equals: x bars* parameter, you can
extend the 4 delays (not the loops!!!) to longer values than "whole notes". The *timer equals: x
bars* parameter could have been replaced by the possibility to set each delay to longer values than
"whole note", under their T_Delay knobs.
For most uses, keep this parameter to "1 bar".
*vol pedal setup* here you can assign a pedal or midi CC as input volume pedal feeding the loop(s).
[time]
*#bars1/2/3/4* select the lengths of the loops in bars. 1 bar equals a Timer “tap to start/tap to stop
cycle”, that is the time you see as *timer* in the loops menu.
*loops1/2/3/4* show/tweak the loops lengths in seconds. The 4 #bars parameter and loop
parameters can be tweaked as gangs (groups of 4) ot indipendently.
*t_delay5/6/7/8* set rhytmic subdivisions for the 4 delays
*delay5/6/7/8* monitor the 4 delay lengths, according to the math going on between timer
value/timer equals/t_delay value
Philosophy
This preset allows to create a loop and throw it to a slap delay, whose length is set to any desired
rhythmic subdivision, preferably different from the loop length.
The loop and its "slap delay" can be panned to different speakers.
The loop is the basic pattern and its slap delay is a rhythmic variation of that, creating "variation on
repetition"... games of phases!
You can build up to 4 loops! You can build a different rhythmic variation of each one, with the
respective delay tap.
All can be panned anywhere on 4 speakers.

It's an intense experience. Maybe too much. Probably a single stereo loop w/4 taps could be more
intelligible...but hey... use it! VSIG can open up variations of this for you.
Looping rhythmic material will make you wonder about the rhythms going on..... start w/a single
loop and get the flavours of different variatioins by tweaking its delay alone. Then move on to
multiple looping and variations of them.
Looping non-rhythmic material will end up in "waves" of sounds, evolving in swell ins and outs.
This is truly a powerful tool, for any kind of music.
Try looping a sample and tweak the parameters to get the feeling of "perdition" in this.
REICH LOOPS #2 (Orville-preset 25/Bank 7)
The algorithm has 4x40 seconds mono loops and 4x8 seconds delays.
Loop1 feeds Delay5
Loop2 feeds Delay6
Loop3 feeds Delay7
Loop4 feeds Delay8
All of them can be panned everywhere in a quad speakers setup and have dedicated levels.
Let's take a look at the most important menupages, to understand what's going on in this arsenal:
[loops]
*input* sets the input level to the selected loop
*loop #* selects which loop you are sending audio to
*loop* horizontal bar monitor that shows audio level present in the selected loop
*timer* is a monitor that displays the length of the time set by the system TIMER (you'll find it
under SETUP)
This is basically telling you the time elapsed between two taps of your foot on a footswitch, used to
start the TIMER count and to stop it.
*timer equals* this is a bit confusing parameter, in the way it is presented. It actually changes the 4
delays (not the loops!) lengths according to timer length: T_Delay x value.
If *timer* shows 1.000sec and *timer equals: 1 bar* and any t_delay parameter is set to "whole
note", then it's time value will be 1 second. By raising the *timer equals: x bars* parameter, you can
extend the 4 delays (not the loops!!!) to longer values than "whole notes". The *timer equals: x
bars* parameter could have been replaced by the possibility to set each delay to longer values than
"whole note", under their T_Delay knobs.
For most uses, keep this parameter to "1 bar".
*vol pedal setup* here you can assign a pedal or midi CC as input volume pedal feeding the loop(s).
[time]
*#bars1/2/3/4* select the lengths of the loops in bars. 1 bar equals a Timer tap to start/tap to stop
cycle, that is the time you see as *timer* in the loops menu.
*loops1/2/3/4* show/tweak the loops lengths in seconds. The 4 #bars parameter and loop
parameters can be tweaked as gangs (groups of 4) ot indipendently.
*ramp1/2/3/4* do something no other processor can do on this ball of earth and waters: they set
rates at which each delay tap (fed by each single loop) ramps to its value, set by the math going on
between between timer value/timer equals/t_delay value
*delay5/6/7/8* monitor the ramps rates to ramp to or from the delay times
*t_delay5/6/7/8* set the delay times of the 4 slap delays that the 4 ramps climb to or from
Philosophy
This preset allows to create a loop and throw it to a slap delay, whose length is set to any desired
rhythmic subdivision, preferably different from the loop length.
The loop and its "slap delay" can be panned to different speakers.
The loop is the basic pattern and its slap delay is a rhythmic variation of that, creating "variation on
repetition"... games of phases!
You can buils up to 4 loops! You can build a different rhythmic variation of each one, with the
respective delay tap.
All can be panned anywhere on 4 speakers.
Now, *WHAT* is really unique here is that the 4 slap delays are not fixed rhythmic
subdivisions..BUT they are delays that can expand or shrink, using positive or negative ramps
values!!! This will create an evolutive sound with modulation, going from comb filtering to flanger
to chorus to doubling to, finally, a full slap delay!!!
It's something that needs to be heard to believe it. It a true organic feast for ears willing to be fed by
novelty, "elseness", a real treat!!!
Again, get familiar by building a single loop and listen to its ramping "morph",
w/modulation...natural modulation, not lfo. Those ramps can be very slow or a bit faster or very
fast....try ramping down to 0ms from anything above, while another loop does the opposite.
REICH LOOPS #3 (Orville-preset 26/Bank 7)
The algorithm has a QUAD 35 seconds loops.
Loop1 is the main loop
Loop2/3/4 are skews, rhythmic asymmetric variations of loop 1!
They are panned to the 4 corners of a quad speakers setup.
Let's take a look at the most important menupages, to understand what's going on in this arsenal:
[loops]
*input* sets the input level to the loop
*output* sets the loop output level
*fback* makes the loop...looping!…or decaying, fading out…
*timer* is a monitor that displays the length of the time set by the system TIMER (you'll find it
under SETUP)
This is basically telling you the time elapsed between two taps of your foot on a footswitch, used to
start the TIMER count and to stop it.
*timer equals* this is a bit confusing parameter, in the way it is presented. It actually changes the 4
delays (not the loops!) lengths according to timer length: T_Delay x value. For most uses, keep this
parameter to "1 bar".
*loop* horizontal bar monitor that shows audio level present in the selected loop.
*vol pedal setup* here you can assign a pedal or midi CC as input volume pedal feeding the loop(s).
[time]
*#bars* selects the length of the loop1 and of the 3 looping skews in bars. If *t_skew" are set to
OFF, then their lengths is the same as loop 1.
*t_skew2/3/4* are added to *#bars* to actually create the rhythmic asymmetry in these 3 channels.
These are 3 loops living withing Loop1 feedback path.
So be careful as artifacts can occur by tweaking skews while audio is looping.
*loops1/2/3/4* show/tweak the loops lengths in seconds. *t_delay5/6/7/8* set rhytmic subdivisions
for the 4 delays
Philosophy
This preset allows to create a loop and throw it to 3 slap delays, whose lengths are set to any desired
rhythmic subdivision, preferably different from the loop length.
This creates 4 voice rhythms out of one! Polyrhythms w/rhythmic material, almost "soundscapes"
with ambient material.
Here ends the Reich Loops saga!

:shocked::shocked::shocked:
 
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