Looking for tube recommendations for VH4

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O731

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Hey guys, I'm currently running JJ 12AX7's and JJ KT77's in my Diezel VH4. My reason for using JJ's is so I can have a nice tight lows. However, I was noticing the highs are a bit on the creamier side. I was looking into playing around with new tubes.

I was looking at Tung Sol 12AX7's, and Gold Lion KT77's. I was wondering what kind of tone differences I would expect with these tubes, or any combination of the preamp tubes (Full Tung Sol, or mixing tung sol with other preamp tubes).

If anyone can share their experiences it would be very much appreciated!
 
I tried em all in five diezels only to come full circle back to the ruby 12ax7ac5hg+ and the jjkt77.
 
Thanks a lot! Have you tried even tung sol 12ax7s and gold lion kt77s? What kind of tone differences did they provide?

Also, what kind of tone does the 12ax7ax5hg+ give ? Do you use them for all preamp tubes ?
 
Does anyone have experience using a Tung sol 12AX7 in V1, and/or a Sovtek at the PI?
 
O731":2yeeh4gl said:
Thanks a lot! Have you tried even tung sol 12ax7s and gold lion kt77s? What kind of tone differences did they provide?

Also, what kind of tone does the 12ax7ax5hg+ give ? Do you use them for all preamp tubes ?
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Yes and yes. Tung sol dark. Cant remember gold lions, long ago.

I use them for all. You really only want to put the hg+ v1-3 and the rest the regular ones. Visit magic parts website.
 
Hmmm.. perhaps an hg+ v1-3, sovtek in the PI, and JJ’s in the rest.
 
I’ve tried them all , this sounds the best to me.
Preamp: Ruby 12ax7
PI : Sovtek 12ax7 LPS

I don’t like JJ preamp tubes in any position of the VH4.
The amp is already smooth, they push it too far.

As for powertubes , The GL KT77s are well liked in the amp,
IMHO they are better than the JJs, (more complex sound) and very reliable.
Personally I prefer 6L6’s a bit more.
 
Hmm thank you. Would you be able to describe how different the tone is with gold lion kt77s? Also, with the ruby 12ax7s, would I loose a lot the bottom end that the JJs give me, or would the fact that I’m using KT77s not have that much effect on the low end tightness?

Finally, do you recommend HG+ 12ax7s anywhere?
 
I tried rolling tubes in my new VH4. What was in it from the factory was the best sounding combo. Tung-Sol cv4004 in v1, and the rest of the preamp tubes Chinese 12ax7ac5, with jj KT77'S. Never tried gold lion kt77s though.
Be careful with tung sol's 12ax7's in the other slots. Ive had terrible luck with them in cathode follower spots. Humm like crazy and fail quickly. Not sure which position in vh4 is the cathode follower though. Obviously not v1.
 
fusedbrain":14st29ef said:
I tried rolling tubes in my new VH4. What was in it from the factory was the best sounding combo. Tung-Sol cvcv4004 in v1, and the rest Chinese, with jj KT77'S. Never tried gold lion kt77s though.
Be careful with tung sol's 12ax7's in the other slots. Ive had terrible luck with them in cathode follower spots. Humm like crazy and fail quickly. Not sure which position in vh4 is the cathode follower though. Obviously not v1.
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Thanks for the recommendations. I was just wondering what you mean "The rest Chinese".
 
Sorry, I meant the rest of the pre-amp tubes were Chinese. I believe Diezel recommends Chinese 12ax7ac5HG.
I edited my other post for clarity.
 
fusedbrain":3gw8rwiw said:
Sorry, I meant the rest of the pre-amp tubes were Chinese. I believe Diezel recommends Chinese 12ax7ac5HG.
I edited my other post for clarity.
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Thanks! So i'm assuming these would be it? http://www.dougstubes.com/ruby-12ax7-ac ... grade.html

Also, would there be any benefit to getting matched triodes? Also, would the HG+ be another viable option for say, V1-3?

EDIT: I seemed to have linked the ACZ, as opposed to the AC5 you recommended. However, i've read that the ACZ HG+ is the highest gain pickup. Perhaps I could use ACZ HG+ in V1-3, then the AC5 in the rest, with a Sovtek LPS in the PI.
 
O731":32iqzajh said:
Hmm thank you. Would you be able to describe how different the tone is with gold lion kt77s? Also, with the ruby 12ax7s, would I loose a lot the bottom end that the JJs give me, or would the fact that I’m using KT77s not have that much effect on the low end tightness?

Finally, do you recommend HG+ 12ax7s anywhere?
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The gold lion KT77 vs JJ KT77 random thoughts ..

Gold lions are more classic , leaner less chunky, less bass.
Crunchy mids, not too hard and not too soft .. just right.
They have an almost el34 bite but aren’t abrasive sounding.
Slightly cleaner sounding than most EL34’s a bit more harmonic content than the JJs.

The JJs are thicker, tons of bass and low chunk.
They can be aggressive sounding, the focus is more in the low mids vs high mids of the Gold Lion.
Don’t get me wrong they are good tubes.
I find they sound somewhat simple and lack the same harmonic
content of many others.

As for the JJ preamp tubes. The amp has a huge amount of bottom end .. especially with the
JJ kt77.. are you playing bass??

The HG+ 12ax7’s I use in the first 3 positions.

Something you have to think about is your ear is accustomed to your tubes when you change them you may not like it. Whatever you do, I suggest to stick with it for a while before going back.
 
Thank you. You say the gold lions have less crunch, would that make it not a viable option for high gain, metal style type playing ? Or is it just a matter of a different tone quality.

Also, I’m looking to get hg+ 12ax7s now. Do you know anything about the 12ax7 act?
 
O731":2kcryd68 said:
Thank you. You say the gold lions have less crunch, would that make it not a viable option for high gain, metal style type playing ? Or is it just a matter of a different tone quality.

Also, I’m looking to get hg+ 12ax7s now. Do you know anything about the 12ax7 act?
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Remember all my opinion...
The GLs are not less crunchy , it’s that the crunch is more upper mid focused vs the low mid focus (chunk) of the JJs.

I think either would work well for metal just your preference.

If your JJ kt77’s are still good maybe change the preamp tubes first and see?

The higher grade 12ax7’s are recommended especially in the first 2 positions.
This is for low noise and high gain.

Look at the current recommendation below,
Not sure what side of the pond your on, in the USA Laura at valve queen carries these tubes.


This is copied from Peter Diezel :

Diezel Stock tubes 16.01.2017
V1: 12AX7-B High grade selection on B-side 678 or CV4004 High grade
V2: 12AX7-B High grade selection on B-side 678
V3, V4, V5, V6 (V7, V8, V9): 12AX7-B
Reverb: 12AT7-C
Power tubes KT77-JJ with 35mA bias each tube, 70mA each pair
 
This is copied from Peter Diezel :

Diezel Stock tubes 16.01.2017
V1: 12AX7-B High grade selection on B-side 678 or CV4004 High grade
V2: 12AX7-B High grade selection on B-side 678
V3, V4, V5, V6 (V7, V8, V9): 12AX7-B
Click to expand...
^^^This^^^
Go here for the tubes: https://store.valvequeen.com/shop-by-tube-type/12ax7
You want the Ruby 12az7HG+ 678 (Diezel selected ) OR the Mullard CV4004 12AX7 for V1
Ruby 12az7HG+ 678 (Diezel selected ) for V2
RUBY 12AX7 AC5 HG for all the other pre-amp spots.
 
The Ruby Diezel selected 12AX7-B 678, 12AX7 AC5 HG, & 12AX7 AC5 HG+ are all Chinese 12ax7-B tubes that have been screened by Ruby and identified as being high grade, with the 678 & HG+ having the lowest noise & micro-phonics, so they are suitable for use in V1 position of high gain amps.
The 12AX7 ACZ is a JJ ( CZ = Czech ) 12ax7 that has been screened by ruby for the same qualities, but is a JJ, not chinese.

All the chinese tubes mentioned will sound the same, but be slightly more or less noisy and micro-phonic ( still very low by comparison to regular chinese 12ax7-B ).
The 12AX7 ACZ ( JJ ) is also a very nice tube, but to my ears sounds darker, & thicker than the Chinese tubes.
I feel that the VH4 does NOT need to be any darker or thicker sounding, and benefits from the Chinese tube's brighter, more aggressive sound.
The JJ's sound very good in my Wizard amps, and also very good in my modded Marshall amps, but not so great in the Diezel or Friedman amps. This has more to do with the overall frequency spectrum and voicing of the amps than the quality of the tubes.
All tubes mentioned are very good, and Laura @ Valve Queen is an excellent tube vendor :rock:
 
Sorry, I forgot to answer your question about the Chinese 12ax7-b in the link you posted.
Those are the generic 12ax7-b, and yes, they can be used in the later positions of the amp.
All these 12ax7-B tubes are mass produced and the quality can vary widely, hence the price. They will generally all work, but they can be VERY noisy or micro-phonic. This is why it's very important that the tubes are screened for the application you will use them in. Out of a batch of 500 tubes, a very low number will be suitable for use in V1 & 2 of high gain amps. It's not as important for the later stages of the pre-amp, but a quality tube in the phase inverter position is a good thing.
Re-brander's like Ruby will do this screening and separate the tubes into HG, HG+ etc.. and vendors like Valve Queen will also test and burn in the tubes for a second level of screening. When you see generic Chinese 12ax7-B's for sale at the price in the link you posted, most likely the vendor is simply taking the tubes out of the case that arrived from china, and sending them on to you, without any screening or testing at all.
You DO get what you pay for when you buy quality tubes from a reputable tube vendor.
If you're not sure, or it's not clear on their website, call them and ask them how they are screening or testing the tubes they are shipping to you.
 
Thank you for all of the great help folks. So let me clarify:

Two of these for v1 and v2 https://store.valvequeen.com/ruby-ac5-1 ... l-selected

Then these for all the rest: https://store.valvequeen.com/tubes/ruby ... ac5-hgplus

I heard I need something different for the reverb? Or will the ac5 work for these too? Would a sovtek provide something different in the PI?

I might want to get myself GL kt77 just to switch around with the JJ’s, although they are expensive, and having to bias every time I change power tubes sounds rather tedious :)

Just to add in a little question here: Does the EL34 BHT have that much less low end then the KT77?
 
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