Loosening up an amp?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bhuether
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bhuether

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I have the Einstein and VH4S. I mostly play the Einstein because I feel like it lets notes breath more if that makes sense. At high gain, when I pick a note, I like the pick attack to be softened. In other words, I don't like an amp that is so tight where you pick the note and instantly everything is there - note and pick attack. I would say the VH4S is in the very fast response category whereas my Einstein seems to have a slower response which I find very pleasing.

So the question is, what controls the tightness of an amp? I have another tight sounding amp (a Koch Powertone II) and I posted the schematic on a tech site and someone gave me a procedure to follow to loosen that amp up. It amounted to changing a bunch of resistors and capacitors. But I thought Rs and Cs only affected frequency response. I didn't think they could alter dynamics and that is really what I am talking about.

Just curious if anyone has tips on how mod an amp so that the blooming of a note is slowed down. Is this a preamp or power tube area?

I wish I could put what I am talking about into words better. Bottom line is I like an amp to breath while at the same time having tight bass reponse. I feel the Einstein fits that description but not my VH4S.

thanks,

brian
 
well bud, honestly, maybe you're not a VH4 guy. Most of the VH4 owner LIKE that fast tight response.
 
In all sincerity, rather then changing an amps original intent, why not just start with the amp that meets your wants and needs initially???
 
I think the initial question here wasn't how to make VH4(S) sound more loose and so on, but was expressed rather in more tech-discussionating form of what is the key what makes a certain amp react as it does.

Personally I am not qualified to answer this very question, but I must say that I am extremely eager and grateful if we get any input here from someone who is "more advanced in the tech-hierarchy".

...or then, because I do not speak English as my mother tongue, maybe I am an idiot and completely misunderstood the original question. :confused: ;)
 
alright, lets get technical! hehe (which I don't know jack sh*t about) :lol: :LOL:

but I asume that if there's a way to make an amp "tighter" by soldering caps and what not, there must be a "technical way" to make it a bit looser I asume then.

But I don't know really.


Olaf?
 
I know nothing about amps but I suspect it's the power amp?
 
I am mainly curious what some of the fundamental differences are between VH4S and Einstein that account for this tight vs looser sound. I am also curious what tight and loose really mean technically. I suppose it equates to some sort of dynamic response but I wonder what components are interacting to make an amp respond fast and tight vs slower and looser.

Definitely a fascinating area that I know nothing about and want to learn more.

brian
 
I think you are after a tone that would be categorized as more "saturated" or "brown sound". Fortunately, for those of us who have paid big money for tight, own Diezels, mine being a VH4 played through a Diezel front loaded 4x12. Even in the gainiest of gig volume settings, it is still very articulate.

You could do several things short of messing with the circuitry:

1. Try a cab with "flabbier", lower voltage speakers (not V30's).
2. Yes, there are tubes defined as loose or flabby in the preamp and power sections. Have a look at Svetlana or Sovtek.
3. 34's are going to be tighter than 6L6's, in general.
4. Try pulling two tubes and see what that does for you.
5. What will certainly saturate (and ruin) your tone is to use a decent power attenuator.
6. If you buy an Ultimate Attenuator, it comes with a 100V power socket which lowers the input voltage similar to a Variac and produces some brown sound.
7. Buy a Variac.
8. Raise the bias to 80% of recommended. Really heat those tubes up for early saturation. Keep a spare set handy though.

Steve
 
I agree with the other posters, that a VH4S is probably not the amp for you if
you like a softer attack and more "bloom" on the note.

A couple of things in general that will affect attack in general in a tube amp:
1) Solid state vs tube rectifier (power supply to the tubes). Solid state tighter,
tube softer.
2) Larger vs smaller damping factor between amp and speaker. Higher damping -> tighter feel.
I believe this is a property of the output transformer. The output transformer
will have a big effect on the feel.

Some specific suggestions if you want to keep the VH4S.
1) Get a high quality compressor that has adjustable attack and sustain values,
and experiment to see what settings you like. Try it between your guitar and amp,
and try it in the effects loop, to see which you like better.

2) Put in some super low power output tubes, like THD yellow jackets.
I have tried this in a VH4S, it definitely will help some if you are after a softer sound
but won't get you all the way.

The previous poster who suggested pulling 2 tubes didn't realize that
the VH4S is a stereo amp - Pulling 2 output tubes would result in no sound at all
and possibly blowing up your amp.

3) Try biasing your tubes a little hotter, but only if you know what you are doing
and are willing to live with shorter tube life. Don't go overboard on this or you
could damage your amp.

BTW, if you don't want to keep the VH4S, please PM me, I might be interested in buying it.
I sold mine and now I wish I had it back :( .
 
Well, I think I really need to get a great cab (like a Diezel) before I decide if I should keep the VH4S. I have never been happy with the cab I have (Genz Benz G Flez 2x12).

THe compressor is a good idea. I have an excellent compressor that I never use (RNC). But the thing is, a compressor will reduce the dynamics. So I am not sure if that will result in the type of softening I am looking for.

thanks,

brian
 
rockridge98":29e8ou5v said:
BTW, if you don't want to keep the VH4S, please PM me, I might be interested in buying it.
I sold mine and now I wish I had it back :( .
Click to expand...

I might sell mine. I currently have a VH4-S and a Herbert. I have to sell one by the end of the month to pay some bills. Unfortunately I love them both dearly. I think I'd like to have Ch2 & Ch3 of the VH4-S and Ch1 & Ch3 of the Herbert :)
 
sunder":2qivcun0 said:
rockridge98":2qivcun0 said:
BTW, if you don't want to keep the VH4S, please PM me, I might be interested in buying it.
I sold mine and now I wish I had it back :( .
Click to expand...

I might sell mine. I currently have a VH4-S and a Herbert. I have to sell one by the end of the month to pay some bills. Unfortunately I love them both dearly. I think I'd like to have Ch2 & Ch3 of the VH4-S and Ch1 & Ch3 of the Herbert :)
Click to expand...

PM sent...
 
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