M4/GCX Users...

[dfrattaroli]

Anyone hear the tone suckage? I put my M4's output into a loop in the GCX so that I can switch between 2 separate rigs: M4/RT250 or the Axe FX/DCM150. But I swear it changes my tone on both rigs compare to just plugging in.

Anyone else?

 

[guitarslinger]

I haven't encountered a switcher that doesn't noticeably change my tone in a negative way.

It sounds more "distant", right? (for lack of a better term)

 

[muudrock]

I assume you running thru the on board buffer?

When I had a GCX the buffer made an audible difference and negated alot of the tone suck.

 

[destratification]

I haven't noticed a tone suck with my GCX but I did add a VHT Valvulator to the beginning of my chain (guitar>vht>gcx>M4>gmajor>rt2/50) because it enabled me to power my pedals (had it in the closet and forgot that it had dc output until looking closer). I kept it in the chain because it seemed to add just a little 'girth/fullness' or 'warmth' for lack of a better description. Couldn't be happier with the tone I'm getting...

 

[dfrattaroli]

It sounds more "distant", right? (for lack of a better term)

That's close. To me, it sounds as if the input level to the preamp is cut somehow. As if a boost was turned off (in a very slight way).

 

[Fallout Labs]

I haven't encountered a switcher that doesn't noticeably change my tone in a negative way.

It sounds more "distant", right? (for lack of a better term)

you clearly haven't used an axess electronics grx4

 

[Paul Secondino]

Normally , with a GCX , you should get very minimal tone suck. And signal strength should be 95% or better versus the 100% of plugging direct to your preamp.

As mentioned, the buffer may help. Only one loop on the GCX can feed the buffer and I don't remember which one.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Normally , with a GCX , you should get very minimal tone suck. And signal strength should be 95% or better versus the 100% of plugging direct to your preamp.

As mentioned, the buffer may help. Only one loop on the GCX can feed the buffer and I don't remember which one.

I'm using loop 3 for switching between the M4 and Axe. Tried it again yesterday and it sounded better. Not sure why. Paul are you saying that one of the 8 loops is in line with the buffer and the other 7 are not?

Dave

 

[muudrock]

Normally , with a GCX , you should get very minimal tone suck. And signal strength should be 95% or better versus the 100% of plugging direct to your preamp.

As mentioned, the buffer may help. Only one loop on the GCX can feed the buffer and I don't remember which one.

I'm using loop 3 for switching between the M4 and Axe. Tried it again yesterday and it sounded better. Not sure why. Paul are you saying that one of the 8 loops is in line with the buffer and the other 7 are not?

Dave

If I remember correctly, the buffer only works when you use the Guitar In jack.
Using the "Guitar in" input buffers 2 outputs on the GCX to feed your 2 preamps- "Guitar out" and "Feedthrough. Run output of 1 preamp into the "In" of a loop and the ouput of the other preamp to the "Return" of that loop. Nothing in the send. This way you can A/B the 2 preamps by turning the loop on or off. When the loop is turned on, the preamp in the return jack is activated and the other is muted.

IDK, you might already have it set this way. I just remember doing this way and got good results feeding mulitple preamps. I do the same thing now MOL with an RJM RG-16. Works and sounds great.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Run output of 1 preamp into the "In" of a loop and the ouput of the other preamp to the "Return" of that loop. Nothing in the send. This way you can A/B the 2 preamps by turning the loop on or off. When the loop is turned on, the preamp in the return jack is activated and the other is muted.

I have to try it that way. Right now I go into the Guitar In and then out the Guitar Out into Loop 1, to Loop 2, to Loop3 and the Loop3 send goes to one Preamp and the Loop3 return goes to the other. I run them as 2 separate rigs with their own power amps and cabs.

 

[muudrock]

Run output of 1 preamp into the "In" of a loop and the ouput of the other preamp to the "Return" of that loop. Nothing in the send. This way you can A/B the 2 preamps by turning the loop on or off. When the loop is turned on, the preamp in the return jack is activated and the other is muted.

I have to try it that way. Right now I go into the Guitar In and then out the Guitar Out into Loop 1, to Loop 2, to Loop3 and the Loop3 send goes to one Preamp and the Loop3 return goes to the other. I run them as 2 separate rigs with their own power amps and cabs.

You're bypassing the buffer in that set up which is probably it doesn't sound right.
Try it using the buffer, I bet it sounds better..

Any time I use multiple amps, I use a buffer. Actually I use a buffer anytime I use a looper. Any piece of gear in your signal chain will affect the sound--nothing is transparent. Loopers may use true bypass loops, but they still affect your tone.

Hope it works out for you.

 

[dfrattaroli]

You're bypassing the buffer in that set up which is probably it doesn't sound right.
Try it using the buffer, I bet it sounds better..

Now I'm confused. I thought that as long as I go into the Guitar In on the front of the GCX, then out the Guitar Out on the back, that I was using the buffer? What am I getting wrong. Appreciate all your help by the way!

 

[ugg]

You are correct, the buffer on the GCX is between the Guitar In on the front and the Guitar Out on the back. The buffer also outputs to the second Out on the back.

The Line In jack on the front (beside the Guitar In) is a passthrough (no buffer) to the second Out on the back. IMO, the passthrough is a lot more transparent than the buffer.

There is an OpAmp chip (IC) for the buffer inside the GCX on the circuit board. Older GCX's had the chip soldered, but newer GCX's have them mounted in a socket. If you don't like the way the buffer sounds you can try changing the chip. I remember reading some threads talking about the various chips and how they sound on HRI. Try searching HRI (Huge Racks Inc) for "GCX" and "buffer".

 

[muudrock]

You're bypassing the buffer in that set up which is probably it doesn't sound right.
Try it using the buffer, I bet it sounds better..

Now I'm confused. I thought that as long as I go into the Guitar In on the front of the GCX, then out the Guitar Out on the back, that I was using the buffer? What am I getting wrong. Appreciate all your help by the way!

My apologies, I didn't read your post very well..... You are using the buffer if your signal enters the
GCX via the "guitar in".

There is a buffer upgrade available for the GCX from a couple of sources. Do a web search. I was never totally impressed with the buffer in the GCX. A friend of mine uses one with the buffer mod and there is a noticeable difference. I ended going with an RJM RG-16 which has a great buffer in it. I think Friedman may have designed it.

You can always bypass the internal buffer and use and external buffer the the Axcess, Valvulator, etc.

 

[dfrattaroli]

There is a buffer upgrade available for the GCX from a couple of sources. Do a web search. I was never totally impressed with the buffer in the GCX. A friend of mine uses one with the buffer mod and there is a noticeable difference. I ended going with an RJM RG-16 which has a great buffer in it. I think Friedman may have designed it.

Thanks! I'll look into it. Lately, I've started to think it has less effect on the M4 than it does on the Axe FX. But it's a simple and powerful system so I'm going to give it a fair shake at making it work.

Dave