M4 with Randall RT2/50

[bbaug14]

Anyone know where I could find a tutorial on how to hook up the M4 with the Randall RT2/50 along with how to program it to swich tubes with different modules using a GCP and GCX? I've never used the two in conjunction with each other and rather than waste hours trying to figure it out, I was hoping someone here knows where I can find out how to do it. Thanks!

 

[Klark]

Should be relatively easy. You'll need to do some decision making before you start, because you have a couple different options..

Since you have a GCX, I would assume you're going to use the 8 instant access (IA) switches for each loop ??? If so, then you're stuck to using preset changes to switch channels on your M4 & RT. The good thing about using preset changes is you will NOT have to add the M4 or RT as a 'Device' in the GCP, which simplifies things quite a bit.

If you're not going to use your IA switches to switch on/off your GCX loops, then you can set up the IA switches to control your M4 & RT channels, however, you actually need 10 IA switches, but you only have 8 on the GCP. No big deal, especially since most guys aren't using all 8 channels of their M4's anyway.

To set up the IA switches to control the M4 & RT can be frustrating..

First thing I will recommend is to look in your RT2/50 manual, or figure out by experiment what midi channel the RT2/50 is by default.. That is, unless you bought it 2nd hand or have already changed the internal switches to another channel..?? If you believe it's on the default, then leave it alone, because it's much easier to change the M4 midi channel, as it has external switches. If your RT is ch16, when make your M4 ch15, or whatever numbers you like, but they WILL need to be different channels.

Then, in your GCP, you'll need to add the M4 as a 'Device' on ch15, and then add the RT as a 'Device' on ch16. You'll then have to decide your layout, as in which switches will do what, and then program the CC commands of those switches to control whichever devices they're going to control. Let's say switches 1 thru 6 control 6 channels of your M4, switch 7 is 6L6's, switch 8 is EL34's. This is where most guys probably say 'To hell with this, I'll just use preset changes', as it's much easier, but less functional.

Also, before anyone recommends it, you CANNOT use one switch to switch back & forth between 6L6 & EL34's.. The midi in the RT does not allow it, for some really stupid reason. The only way you can use one switch is to cycle through all 3 modes.. ch1(6L6), ch2(EL34), and mute. Yep, I agree, really stupid, but that's the way it is.

If you can spare one IA switch, the mute of the RT is nice to have, especially if you don't use a pedal tuner mute. If you're finding 8 IA switches is not enough, and you're not using your GCP's expression pedal jacks for external expression pedals, I can mod your GCP and add your two more IA switches. The most common being one switch for tap tempo, and the other for mute. Here's some pics of the mod..

http://www.alanproaudio.com/guitar/images/gcpmod

 

[bbaug14]

Thanks for the info. Right now I use presets. I have my M4 powering my my MOD50 and have my MOD50 in one GCX loop, the M4 in another, and then four pedals in the other loops, leaving two loops empty. I have presets set up to select the channel of the module in either the M4 or the MOD50 that I want, along with whatever pedal I may or may not want. So, what I'm hoping to do is just set this up where my presets are the same and the RT turns on the right tubes (EL/6L6) accordingly.

 

[Klark]

Thanks for the info. Right now I use presets. I have my M4 powering my my MOD50 and have my MOD50 in one GCX loop, the M4 in another, and then four pedals in the other loops, leaving two loops empty. I have presets set up to select the channel of the module in either the M4 or the MOD50 that I want, along with whatever pedal I may or may not want. So, what I'm hoping to do is just set this up where my presets are the same and the RT turns on the right tubes (EL/6L6) accordingly.

You can, and I believe it's setup the same way as the M4.. Switch to the preset, select your tubes, and then hold the button on the front to store it. Try that and see if it works.

 

[bbaug14]

Thanks a bunch for the info. I actually don't have the RT in hand yet. I should be getting it at the house this week, so when I do I'll give this a try and see what I come up with.

Thanks again!

 

[jlbaxe]

Great power amp. Are you going with just the M4/RT set up for gigs or combining them all?

 

[bbaug14]

Probably just the RT/M4 for gigs since my Egnater 2X12 only has one input. I don't know how I would run both the RT and the MOD50 to one cab simultaneously.

 

[jlbaxe]

You can use the mod50 and M4 together without the RT giving you 12 channels of Eggy goodness.

 

[bbaug14]

You can use the mod50 and M4 together without the RT giving you 12 channels of Eggy goodness.

Doing that now

 

[jkdsteve]

You can use the mod50 and M4 together without the RT giving you 12 channels of Eggy goodness.

I had 20 channels this way at one point...madness but holy

 

[jlbaxe]

You can use the mod50 and M4 together without the RT giving you 12 channels of Eggy goodness.

I had 20 channels this way at one point...madness but holy

I had 26 mod50/100 2 m4's

 

[bbaug14]

Ok need some help. I have the m4 MIDI thru going to the rt MIDI in. The rest is a mystery. LOL not sure how to hook up for channel switching or where the cab should be plugged in or which channel is what tubes. HELP!!!

 

[bbaug14]

I should add I am using a gcx and gcp so I need to know how to hook up the m4 and the ft with the gcx. What cables go where. Thanks!!!

 

[bbaug14]

So this is what I tried. I have M4 MIDI thru to RT MIDI in. Then I have M4 input to GCX send. Then I have M4 output to GCX Return. Then I have GCX ouput to RT input channel 1. Then I have channel 1 main on RT going to my cab. I get sound through my cab and my channel switching on my GCP works fine, as it should, but I can't assign channels with the RT and I'm getting a buzz as well. Also, when no channels on my GCP are selected, I still get a clean tone coming through. I tried holding down the channel select on the RT but it didn't work with this set up. I'm not sure what I've hooked up wrong. Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[bbaug14]

Update. I took off the top of the RT and changed the dip switches since that seems to be a problem from the factor. I moved them all to the other direction. So the are all now pushed towards the back of the RT. Hook everything back up, nothing. UGH. It took care of the buzz problem though for some reason. This is the way I had it hooked up. MIDI Thru on M4 to MIDI IN on RT. I also had the output of the loop on the GCX for the M4 going to the input of channel 1 on the RT. I even tried changing the MIDI set up of running the MIDI out of the GCP to the MIDI IN of the RT and then the MIDI THru of the RT to the MIDI in of the M4 and then the MIDI thru of the M4 to the MIDI OUT of the GCX. Nothing. It just won't program the channel by holding down the button for some reason. Any suggestions???

 

[Klark]

It's because of what I explained to you, the RT is not sensing a program change on the midi channel you have it set to.

Change your GCP to output in OMNI mode, and then see if the RT will store after trying a program change.

 

[bbaug14]

Okay, someone told me a good way to start is to get the RT working with the M4 alone and go from there. Makes perfect sense. Here's how it went. I put the first four switches of the M4 all up and then set up by connecting guitar into M4 in, M4 out into RT Channel 1 in. Then I had M4 MIDI Thru to RT MIDI in. Channel switching did not work. Then I tried the first four M4 switches down just to make sure that wasn't the problem. Tried it again, no channel switching. I even tried hooking it up with M4 MIDI IN to RT MIDI Thru but it still didn't work. I have a feeling that there is a problem with the way I'm connecting the MIDI cables since I tried the M4 switches both ways and it should have worked one of the ways. Also, I am doing this with the RT on standby, which I don't think should matter, but I figured I'd mention it. HELP!!!

 

[Klark]

Okay, someone told me a good way to start is to get the RT working with the M4 alone and go from there. Makes perfect sense.

For finding a bad cable, yes, that makes sense. But I would venture to say your cables are fine. Also, midi doesn't care how many pieces you have inline. As long as your cables are fine, you can patch in & thru 17 different pieces and it'll work fine. Did you purchase new midi cables? If not, are you sure they work? If not, do you have a way of testing them?? Again, I would venture to say your midi cables are fine. My bet is on mismatched midi channels..

I explained to over the phone that there is switches inside of your RT. I know the Randall manual states NOTHING of these switches, but believe me, they're there. Here's a pic..

The RT is set up from the factory to work out of the box with the Randall RM4 preamp, and Randall's footswitch. Well, that doesn't work correctly for an Egnater M4, and a regular midi pedal. I'm not sure, nor is anyone that Randall factory, which midi channel the RT is set at the factory. All four switches toward the rear of the RT means ch1, all four towards the front means ch16. From there you can take a look at the M4 manual and figure out the rest of the channels.

Have you reset your GCP to factory default?? If you purchased your GCP used, it's probably had devices already added to it, so it may not being transmitting the proper midi info you need. Reset it to the factory default settings and try again.

Another thing is the manual states nothing of the fact that the RT must sense a program change in order to store the last change. If you're hitting presets on your GCP, and you're not able to store the change, that means bad cable, incorrect midi channel, or worst case, blown midi board in the RT. The midi board is rather easy to blow in the RT, so it's definitely a possibly, especially if you've plugged in or yanked out the midi cables while the RT is on.

 

[Doubleneck]

Here's a close up shot of my MOD100 midi board.

BOTH units need to be receiving the same midi message.

Set all the dip switches to the OFF position on the M4 & RT50 so both can receive the same midi messages for Channel 1.

Set the dip switch #1 to the ON position on the M4 & RT50 so both can receive the same Midi messages for Channel 2 etc...

Then you need to decide if you want to use Program changes or Control changes.

If you want to transmit Program changes set dip switch #6 on the M4 to the ON position.

If you want to transmit Control changes set dip switch #7 on the M4 to the ON position.

 

[Klark]

Oh man, you're just going to confuse him even more with that post.. The RT does NOT have a #6 or #7 switch.