"Marshall" Proprietary Vintage 30 UK vs Chinese

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Disclaimer: I do not intend to offend anyone with statements about equipment that follows.

Okay so I have a Marshall "Chinese" 1960BV cab. You would think it would be thicker and darker than the "UK" 1960AV cabs I own. For those who are not familiar "V" stands for Vintage 30.

I am speaking of Marshall Proprietary Vintage 30's only, as there are 3 types of Vintage 30's produced (until China got involved 4,5 or 6 now ???).

The first were for Marshall in 1986. Then Mesa wanted their own and later Celestion saw the success and wanted their own to load into everything other than the Marshall's and Mesa's (Bogner, Orange etc...).

I hate the Mesa version. Sounds muffled until I apply enough treble then it just spikes to piercing ice pick nasty IMO.

Dealing with Marshall only my British 1960AV cabs from 1996 blow away my Chinese loaded 1960BV. Usually the "B" bottom cab has more bottom but the original British "A" cabs are darker and much smoother than its Chinese counter part. No way I believe that these are supposed to be the same speakers that came out of the UK.

I ran 3 Friedman's a couple Cameron's and all of my custom built Pandora and MorningStar amps through both cabs with the same result.

I believe I can identify the UK from the Chinese version by the sticker on the magnet as the Chinese version says "CELESTION INTERNATIONAL LTD." Is that correct?

Please, all thoughts, push back, agreements, good, bad and/or ugly. I want to know.

David...♫
 
AFAIK the V30's in current production 1960AV/BV are still made in UK?
 
godgrinder":1owdoaw3 said:
AFAIK the V30's in current production 1960AV/BV are still made in UK?
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I believe the Green Back 25 and Vintage 30's moved to China about 2002.

Anyone confirm?
 
NewReligion":1phqlm35 said:
I believe the Green Back 25 and Vintage 30's moved to China about 2002.

Anyone confirm?
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Not for Marshall/Mesa ones. Just the normal retail ones.
 
Were all speakers tested as new...all at the same time?
 
The 1960BV cab and speakers should be UK. AFAIK, Marshall vintage speakers are all UK.
Only the off the shelf v30s and also used in Orange, Bogner, etc. are Chinese.
I have a Traynor 4x12 (Canadian cab) with the Chinese v30s. I think their voicing is not as good as the Mesa and Marshall versions. Kind of scooped and fizzy. I want to replace them with Marshall or Mesa but can’t decide which.

As for your 1960BV cab, don’t know, I find the most recent Marshall cabs to not sound that good. If your AV is older, might be better made or have better broken in speakers. I don’t think yours are Chinese unless someone swapped the speakers. There’s a small label on the side of the speaker that will say Made in China.
 
Regarding the Mesa version, were yours 8ohm or 16ohm? Just changing the impedance changes the speaker.
 
My chinese V30's have a little more bottom than the marshall celestion vintage speakers... sticker is "50" for chinese
 
Okay this is from Scumback Speakers. Looks like they are CHINESE. The cab is well broken in and I have pretty accurate ears.

"Scumback Speakers
Post subject: Re: How to tell if a Celestion is made in UK or China?PostPosted: Fri, Jun 13, 2014 5:09pm
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I'm always amazed at what I read on the internet that passes as facts from people who are not in the business, but feel they talked to someone (say a distributor) and think it's correct. Here's the truth, as told to me by current Celestion reps (I know four of them), one former Celestion lead speaker engineer (Duncan Boniface), and multiple wholesale parts suppliers in the US who sell Kurt Mueller & Celestion parts.

1) Kurt Mueller still supplies SOME cones to Celestion, but by no means all. There are other companies in Malaysia, UVM and others for example, that supply Celestion cones.
2) There are cones/spiders/voice coils made in Malaysia & China, as well as a small percentage the UK, but the majority are made in China. How do I know? One of my US suppliers gets their cones from China instead of the UK. They've offered them to me. I declined. I get mine from Kurt Mueller in the UK directly.
3) The paper pulp type, content and mix are NOT the same as the 50/60's. The wood fibers the cones are made from now are no longer the LONG fibers due to the fact that it's no longer old growth wood being used for the paper pulp for the cones. Why do old guitars from the 50's sound better? Old growth wood, not newer trees.
4) Many of the cone/frame machines were shipped from the UK to China and set up there in 2003. Duncan Boniface oversaw the transition. There is a small # of people actually building guitar speakers in the UK for Celestion. Most of it is pro audio, not guitar speakers.
5) There was most definitely a higher rate of failure, with inconsistent speaker builds and such from 2003 until it stabilized about 5 years ago (2009) from China as compared to the UK built models of the same type. Why? Training, parts issues, suppliers, materials, glue changes, etc. There's this disclaimer often used... "Specifications Subject to Change Without Notice"...maybe some of you have noticed it before.

With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, more research before you type would be advised."
 
Unless all of the speakers were tested as new all out of the box at the same time, there are too many variables to even make this comparison. One quad of speakers could have been pushed to the brink of blowing up and any number of variables can come into play. A different quad could have been gently used and barely broken in even though they might be 10 years old. Etc etc etc.

We can also call into question the cabinets. Does one have better wood? Tighter joints? Was one cabinet dropped? Are all of the screws tight? Again, too many variables.

In the end, you might love one of the quads better.

I had a quad of 75’s that people would swear were greenback 25’s. They were really broken in and played at high volume for hours on end. Normally I hate 75’s... so go figure. lol
 
psychodave":jw8l6x7n said:
Unless all of the speakers were tested as new all out of the box at the same time, there are too many variables to even make this comparison. One quad of speakers could have been pushed to the brink of blowing up and any number of variables can come into play. A different quad could have been gently used and barely broken in even though they might be 10 years old. Etc etc etc.
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I see your point and not to be at odds with you once again but my other 2 1996 1960AV cabs all sound like the 3rd 1996 1960AV cab.

The 2005 1960BV has the white sticker on the edge of the magnet which says Ipswich. Tricky way to fool the consumer.

I do understand controlled experiments as I have many amps and each sound just a little different than the others but this is night and day between cabs and speakers. I have put 2 years of 4 hour loud live gigs on the 1960BV. They are well broken in as I use 100 watt Friedman's and 50 Cameron's.

I mean night and day. Sounds like shit paper cones compared to the 90's era cones.
 
NewReligion":6bbaybix said:
psychodave":6bbaybix said:
Unless all of the speakers were tested as new all out of the box at the same time, there are too many variables to even make this comparison. One quad of speakers could have been pushed to the brink of blowing up and any number of variables can come into play. A different quad could have been gently used and barely broken in even though they might be 10 years old. Etc etc etc.
Click to expand...

I see your point and not to be at odds with you once again but my other 2 1996 1960AV cabs all sound like the 3rd 1996 1960AV cab.

The 2005 1960BV has the white sticker on the edge of the magnet which says Ipswich. Tricky way to fool the consumer.

I do understand controlled experiments as I have many amps and each sound just a little different than the others but this is night and day between cabs and speakers. I have put 2 years of 4 hour loud live gigs on the 1960BV. They are well broken in as I use 100 watt Friedman's and 50 Cameron's.

I mean night and day. Sounds like shit paper cones compared to the 90's era cones.
Click to expand...


There is no right or wrong answer. You like one more than the other. Sell off and avoid what you don’t like. :thumbsup:

Just curious, regarding the speakers that you don’t like, have you tested them to make sure they are wired properly as well as not being damaged? I agree there are small differences, but night and day differences leads me to believe possible damage or a dead sounding cabinet?
 
psychodave":2fwkfluw said:
NewReligion":2fwkfluw said:
psychodave":2fwkfluw said:
Unless all of the speakers were tested as new all out of the box at the same time, there are too many variables to even make this comparison. One quad of speakers could have been pushed to the brink of blowing up and any number of variables can come into play. A different quad could have been gently used and barely broken in even though they might be 10 years old. Etc etc etc.
Click to expand...

I see your point and not to be at odds with you once again but my other 2 1996 1960AV cabs all sound like the 3rd 1996 1960AV cab.

The 2005 1960BV has the white sticker on the edge of the magnet which says Ipswich. Tricky way to fool the consumer.

I do understand controlled experiments as I have many amps and each sound just a little different than the others but this is night and day between cabs and speakers. I have put 2 years of 4 hour loud live gigs on the 1960BV. They are well broken in as I use 100 watt Friedman's and 50 Cameron's.

I mean night and day. Sounds like shit paper cones compared to the 90's era cones.
Click to expand...


There is no right or wrong answer. You like one more than the other. Sell off and avoid what you don’t like. :thumbsup:

Just curious, regarding the speakers that you don’t like, have you tested them to make sure they are wired properly as well as not being damaged? I agree there are small differences, but night and day differences leads me to believe possible damage or a dead sounding cabinet?
Click to expand...


Yes I have checked the cab for proper phase. I loaded 1996 V30's in the 2005 cab...sounds great. Loaded the 2005 speakers in the 96 cab and it went from bad to worse IMO. Put everything back as should be all in phase. The 2005 speakers lack integrity. Yes the cab will be off to a new home.

I was really shocked that it took me 2 years to notice this issue lol. I just noticed one of my favorite amps didn't quite sound right. It sounded scooped with a slight fizz at studio/home volume. This was my live primary cab.

No drama just wanted to point out I believe there is a distinct difference indeed as I am OCD especially when modding my guitars and amps. The cab is fine, seal was fine, speakers are not what they once were.

Just my $.02

David...♫
 
NewReligion":2cry8ce0 said:
Okay. This is the exact Speaker in my 2005 Marshall 1960BV linked below.

Chinese or UK???

Man there are so many different stickers...♫

https://youtu.be/DlsMy9F95io
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I have 2 Marshall Vintages from a Slash cab I used to own. They are from 96, and have the same sticker as yours...Celestion International Ipswitch. No sticker on the side of the magnet that has a 50 on it. Obviously made in England, as China wasn't in the picture yet. By contrast, I have 2 H30 anniversaries that say Celestion International, no Ipswitch. And they do have the sticker on the side of the magnet that has a 50 on it. Made in China.
Your 2005s don't have the white sticker that say 50 on it? They should be made in England. Unless they are being really sneaky and not including all the 'tells' that indicate Chinese made, and are now being made in China.

Like Dave said, so many variables....I had 4 regular V30s that were just fat and awesome. From a 93 Fender Tonemaster cab. An 87 Jubilee AV cab with the first year 8 Ohm Marshall Vintages, GREAT sounding cab.
An Avatar cab with Chinese V30s that sounded good to me...maybe your 2005 speakers are worn out?
 
The best cab I ever owned was a POS fuzzy gray rug covered PA 2x12 cab with a round port on the front that someone put 2 8 ohm Marshall labeled V30s in back in the day, got it with the first JMP 2203 I ever bought (for $400 with the cab !) back around 1986, sold both like an idiot...live and learn gents !
 
In my experience, the Marshall V30s are brighter and thinner. The Mesa are darker and thicker. The Chinese are sort of in between.
 
FourT6and2":14r3yi8w said:
In my experience, the Marshall V30s are brighter and thinner. The Mesa are darker and thicker. The Chinese are sort of in between.
Click to expand...

True. I like both the Marshall & Mesa ones for different tones. They both hold together much better than Chinese V30s once the volume goes up. Cranked Chinese V30s are a nasal, smeared, fuzzy, low-fi ear slicing mess with not much bottom compared to the other variants. I've A/B'd that scenario with two identical Bogner 4x12s, one loaded with Marshall Vintages, the other with Chinese V30, and also a Mesa Traditional 4x12.
 
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