Marshall "Vintage" speakers

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barnesjd

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I used to have a Marshall 1960BV cab with those Marshall "Vintage" 70W speakers. I really liked that cab, but was won over by the Bogner I have now. I'm curious if anyone has A/B'ed these speakers against the standard V30's or any others. It's been so long since I had both cabs, I don't quite remember how they compare. Not to mention that the cabs were different anyway. There is a pair for sale in nearby Nashville that I'm tempted to pick up for experimentation.

Some folks insist that they're the same speakers, but I wouldn't think Marshall would bother with having Celestion make a speaker just for them that was just a relabeled V30. This thread is interesting in regards to whether or not they are the same speaker.

If there is already a thread on this topic, I apologize in advance. Do a search for "Marshall Vintage" yourself and see how effect that is. :gethim:
 
I had a marshall cab with those speakers in it and I thought it was absolutely horrible. Nothing like regular V30s to my ear. Harsh, ice picky, crispy.
 
reverymike":lo1oxosw said:
I had a marshall cab with those speakers in it and I thought it was absolutely horrible. Nothing like regular V30s to my ear. Harsh, ice picky, crispy.

Understood. I certainly preferred the V30-loaded Bogner over the Marshall I had. Of course, a lot of that is just bias towards how much sexier the Bogner looks. Still I hope to find out someone has A/B'd them in the same cab. I'm inclined to believe the speakers are a greater factor than the wood that holds them, of course... but just as a matter of principle.
 
A few years back I had a Marshall 1960AV with the Marshall Vintage speakers and a Rivera K412A with Celestion V30's and did a side by side comparison. To me they sounded VERY similar. I'd say the Marshall version was a bit brighter(harsh to some) but still very close. Probably turning down the presence on the amp 1 to 2 numbers would make them equal. Both cabs were several years old at the time but the Rivera had more hours on it.
 
There's a speaker shootout vid out there somewhere with a bunch of speakers being used. Two of gem are a Celestion v30 and a Marshall vintage speaker. They do indeed sound a lot different from what I remember
 
Yup, different than regular V30's with different magnet codes.
 
I have only heard one in a classic 30 amp, but to me the Marshall vintage is chimaera and brighter than a v30 and a touch less mids. I thought the Marshall vintage worked well in the c30
 
barnesjd":teut42dp said:
I used to have a Marshall 1960BV cab with those Marshall "Vintage" 70W speakers. I really liked that cab, but was won over by the Bogner I have now. I'm curious if anyone has A/B'ed these speakers against the standard V30's or any others. It's been so long since I had both cabs, I don't quite remember how they compare. Not to mention that the cabs were different anyway. There is a pair for sale in nearby Nashville that I'm tempted to pick up for experimentation.

Some folks insist that they're the same speakers, but I wouldn't think Marshall would bother with having Celestion make a speaker just for them that was just a relabeled V30. This thread is interesting in regards to whether or not they are the same speaker.

If there is already a thread on this topic, I apologize in advance. Do a search for "Marshall Vintage" yourself and see how effect that is. :gethim:

The speakers that you're talking about are M-70's. They are a very polarizing love/hate speaker. With the right amp, I think they sound great, but they definitely aren't a "jack of all trades" speaker like a V-30. I think they lend themselves more to heavy, aggressive tones...they lack the sweetness that I want for more classic sounds. They also do well with more processed/effected sounds. I used them for years in a stereo 4x12 that I used with my rack system and they sounded great...even friends who claimed to hate them admitted that they sounded great with my rig.

I still have the quad if you want them. Trade me a pedal or something and cover shipping and their yours...I simply don't have a use for them at this point as I primarily play blues/rock.
 
he's not talking about the g12m-70

he's talking about marshall vintage 30's
they have a different factory code than regular v30's and than mesa v30's
I personally never tried the marshall ones

quote from Steven Fryette about v30's and his VHT P50E speaker:
sfryette":1rp21srk said:
The 30 in V30 has nothing to do with power handling. But making a distinction between the Mesa version and the off-the-shelf version is legit, even though it has little to do with actual power handling capacity. The rated power handling of the V30 of any version (see below) is 65W.

The Mesa version is OEM. This is the T4416 model, which is a 16 ohm speaker. It is made in England specifically for Mesa. But Mesa didn't specify it that way. From what we were told by Celestion around 1997-8, Celestion changed the model T3904 (16 ohm) V30 design in the early 90s to make it easier and cheaper to produce. Mesa didn't like it and insisted on the original version, which then became an OEM model. The 8 ohm version of the Mesa speaker is the T4335. To get an OEM model from Celestion requires a large order. This speaker was made on a separate production line from the off-the-shelf V30, which as Van Nord says is fizzy and thin sounding by comparison.

There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.

When we were using Celestion speakers, we found out about the existence of the T4416 which we had purchased from our German distributor at the time and asked Celestion about it. They had claimed that they didn't offer OEM varitions of the V30, but changed their story when we sent them a T4416 "for evaluation". Then a new rep called us, confirmed that there were in fact two separate V30 production lines and agreed to make us a special T Number OEM speaker. After a couple of months back and forth, we placed a large order and requested the special number assignment, at which time they cancelled the order and reneged on the deal. That's when we switched to Eminence. We haven't used Celestions speakers since.

It's not that V30s don't sound good with our amps. It's just that the T4416 sounds better. The T3904 is now made in China and after all these years, the P50E does what we wanted Celestion to do originally - and does it better, in fact - so we don't need Celestions help.

So, if you like V30s, there is nothing about the amp design that will be compromised using a V30. Our amps are not voiced "only" for the P50E. What is optimized for the P50E is the cabinet design. In that, the P50 will perform better in our cab than any others.

And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*

T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm

*When you change the impedance rating of the speaker, you also change the inductance of the coil which changes the resonant frequency among other things. Also an 8 ohm speaker will be driven by the amp set at 8 ohms which lowers the amplifier impedance (compared to the 16 ohm setup), and thereby lowers the amplifier damping factor, which flattens out the system (amp plus cab system) frequency response and resonant behavior. So if you have 2 identical amps and 2 identical cabs - one cab loaded with 8 ohm speakers and amp set to 8 next to one loaded with 16 ohm speakers and amp set to 16, they will sound noticably different. The 16 ohm rig will usually sound brighter and deeper.

Personally I prefer the 4416, but not in a Recto 4X12. And therein lies the rabbit hole - you can't accurately compare like speakers in unlike cabs.
 
I had a cab loaded with those stock and they sounded slightly different than real V30's... I have since traded them to a friend of mine for greenbacks :thumbsup:
 
My mid-life crisis over the past few years has been modded and stock vintage Marshalls. That said, speaker trying/flipping has also gone hand in hand with this addiction I have. I have settled on a black tolex Jubilee as my favorite, with a boost of course. That amp came stock(combo version) with a Marshall Vintage. I think that speaker sounds killer with this amp. I also have a mint 1980 1960 cab with Marshall labeled G12 65s that also sound great. I just sold a Cameron Aldrich plexi reissue that sounded great with greenbacks but not so good with the vintages. The Jubilee also sounds great through a Fender Tonemaster 4x12 with British V30s. Certain amps REALLY work with V30s and others don't..I understand some hate the Marshall Vintages but they really work with a Jub...
 
sfryette":3he1yk80 said:
There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.



And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*

T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm
IMO the Marshall Vintage isn't brighter than a reg. chinese made Celestion branded V30.
At least the two MVs I own (one in a 2x12 paired with a reg. V30 now, one spare) aren't. They are even darker. Actually they were so dark that I had to add a V30 to the cab to get back some treble . . .
 
Thanks for all the feedback, especially Eric's quote from Steven Fryette. There's some fantastic info in there.
 
rupe":zjz77heg said:
I still have the quad if you want them. Trade me a pedal or something and cover shipping and their yours...I simply don't have a use for them at this point as I primarily play blues/rock.

PM sent
 
barnesjd":4iryzyez said:
rupe":4iryzyez said:
I still have the quad if you want them. Trade me a pedal or something and cover shipping and their yours...I simply don't have a use for them at this point as I primarily play blues/rock.

PM sent
Didn't get one? :confused:
 
rupe":3bkd0n2u said:
barnesjd":3bkd0n2u said:
rupe":3bkd0n2u said:
I still have the quad if you want them. Trade me a pedal or something and cover shipping and their yours...I simply don't have a use for them at this point as I primarily play blues/rock.

PM sent
Didn't get one? :confused:
Ah, you sent me an email...replied in PM
 
duesentrieb":afa779ty said:
sfryette":afa779ty said:
There is a third 16 ohm version only used by Marshall - T3897 - which is even brighter.



And now you know that when you say V30, you could be talking about 5 different speakers - that all sound slightly different:*

T3903 Standard 8 ohm
T3904 Standard 16 ohm
T3987 Marshall OEM 16 ohm
T4416 Mesa OEM 16 ohm
T4335 Mesa OEM 8 ohm
IMO the Marshall Vintage isn't brighter than a reg. chinese made Celestion branded V30.
At least the two MVs I own (one in a 2x12 paired with a reg. V30 now, one spare) aren't. They are even darker. Actually they were so dark that I had to add a V30 to the cab to get back some treble . . .

I believe he said that compared to the T3904 that was still made in england at the time
or maybe your marshalls are more broken in
I've read other people claming the marshall version is a touch brighter and slightly less mid heavy (perhaps they were comparing them to mesas, though)
I think I only had mesas and a chinese one, so I don't know the british made T390X or the marshall T3987
 
About the Mesa Celestions... is that what they're calling the Black Shadow?
 
duesentrieb":89pxypcy said:
IMO the Marshall Vintage isn't brighter than a reg. chinese made Celestion branded V30.
At least the two MVs I own (one in a 2x12 paired with a reg. V30 now, one spare) aren't. They are even darker. Actually they were so dark that I had to add a V30 to the cab to get back some treble . . .

In this clip, the regular V30 does seem brighter. But....while the Marshall Vintage may have less treble, the treble it does have seems to be voiced sharper and grindier than the fuzzier, regular V30. Another way to put it is the Marshall Vintage has a bit of G12T-75 grind to the top end, while the regular V30 leans in the direction of a G12-H30, borrowing some of its ratty type of honk. Thats how I hear it.

Regular V30 (1:41 - 1:54)
Marshall Vintage (1:55 - end)

 
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