Marshall vs. Bogner cabs

[JakeAC5253]

Tell me about the Marshall and Bogner cabinets for use with either modded Marshall or modern high gain amp heads. From what people have said before, the Bogner 4x12 sounds best with V30's, and I am sort of looking for a Greenback cab as I've already got the V30 desire pinned down with my Rec cab. Who has owned a Bogner 4x12 with Greenbacks in it? I want a straight cab only, and I was thinking either the 4x12 standard straight or Ubercab. For the Marshall side of things I was thinking either 1960 or TV, but the TV only comes in slant front, so that sort of ruins that deal a bit for me on that piece. The standard 1960 straight front is still valid though I guess.

 

[steve_k]

Something to ponder......

Over-sized cabs don't work with Marshall amps, stock or mod. Mesa, Mill's, although I haven't tried a TV. I am a little partial to Bogner cabs because I know they work. Very solid construction and based on the 68/69 Marshall design, volume wise. I have settled on the Uber configuration on the rear loads of V30/T75 and the front loads are V30's. Greenbacks are good to, just depends on how you run your amps. I run mine a little scooped and usually the GB's don't work for me, where the V30's do. The T75 mixed smooths out some of the ice picks in the V30's without the honking mids of a GB. You just got to go check them out. Trying to explain or listen to a clip is useless. Or, get a cab and change speakers.

 

[supersonic]

Try a EVH 5153 cab.

 

[thegame]

Bogner cabs sound a little darker, chunkier and push more air than Marshall cabs. Mainly because they're a little bigger and the baffle is fixed instead of floating like in a Marshall. And the Bogners are 100 % birch.

 

[Digital Jams]

I see you are in NJ, pm pyschodave as he has more cabinets then Yngwie's backline with all kinds of speaker combos.

 

[Nico]

I haven't owned a Bogner with greenbacks. I own a Marshall with 25w greenbacks, I really like it! The cab is really good.

The handwired Marshall cabs are very nice too, and the construction is up to par with anything out there.

 

[steve_k]

Bogner cabs sound a little darker, chunkier and push more air than Marshall cabs. Mainly because they're a little bigger and the baffle is fixed instead of floating like in a Marshall. And the Bogners are 100 % birch.

What do you mean by "floating and fixed"? I might learn something about why I like them so much

It seems that the baffle in the Bogs are at a slight upward angle. Maybe not though. They seem to have slightly less internal volume than this old Marshall cab I have. But, maybe not. I need to measure them both one of these days. I like the older Marshall cabs too. And, Jim down at Scumback has a nice replica that he sells. A gather the Metro replica's are the shiz too. Bogner stuff's the back panel of the new cabs too with about 1 1/2" of insulation.

 

[JakeAC5253]

Something to ponder......

Over-sized cabs don't work with Marshall amps, stock or mod. Mesa, Mill's, although I haven't tried a TV. I am a little partial to Bogner cabs because I know they work. Very solid construction and based on the 68/69 Marshall design, volume wise. I have settled on the Uber configuration on the rear loads of V30/T75 and the front loads are V30's. Greenbacks are good to, just depends on how you run your amps. I run mine a little scooped and usually the GB's don't work for me, where the V30's do. The T75 mixed smooths out some of the ice picks in the V30's without the honking mids of a GB. You just got to go check them out. Trying to explain or listen to a clip is useless. Or, get a cab and change speakers.

Thanks I like what I'm hearing about Bogner cabs in general, especially from what I've heard from James Lugo and the clips he's done with his Bogner cab. What is the difference between the standard Bogner 4x12 and the Ubercab? Is the standard 4x12 just straight wood and the Ubercab has the foam inside it?

Over-sized cabs don't work with Marshall amps, stock or mod.

Can you elaborate a bit on this?

Try a EVH 5153 cab.

I've played one a few times, but only with the EVH head on top. If I had to judge the cab based on that alone, I would say that it is good, but didn't knock my socks off or anything.

 

[thegame]

Bogner cabs sound a little darker, chunkier and push more air than Marshall cabs. Mainly because they're a little bigger and the baffle is fixed instead of floating like in a Marshall. And the Bogners are 100 % birch.

What do you mean by "floating and fixed"? I might learn something about why I like them so much

It seems that the baffle in the Bogs are at a slight upward angle. Maybe not though. They seem to have slightly less internal volume than this old Marshall cab I have. But, maybe not. I need to measure them both one of these days. I like the older Marshall cabs too. And, Jim down at Scumback has a nice replica that he sells. A gather the Metro replica's are the shiz too. Bogner stuff's the back panel of the new cabs too with about 1 1/2" of insulation.

Yeah, floating baffle means the board is screwed in from the rear which always leaves a gap (air leak) around the baffle and inner frame. Thats why some guys put caulking around this gap. A floating baffle can be removed. You can always see a bit of grill cloth poking through to the inside. Mills is this way too.

Fixed baffle means the board is permanently dadoed or doweled into the shell of the cab during construction. This airtight method creates a harder, less vintage response. Less air leakage = more punch. Mesa builds like this as well.

I forgot about the insulation !

I was surprised that the Spamback replica cab had premium baltic birch throughout but then they put those caster wells on the top. Yeah I know its a replica cab but I hate those things. Why carve out more wood than you need too ? I'd guess it sounds quite different than the Bogner ?

 

[steve_k]

Bogner cabs sound a little darker, chunkier and push more air than Marshall cabs. Mainly because they're a little bigger and the baffle is fixed instead of floating like in a Marshall. And the Bogners are 100 % birch.

What do you mean by "floating and fixed"? I might learn something about why I like them so much

It seems that the baffle in the Bogs are at a slight upward angle. Maybe not though. They seem to have slightly less internal volume than this old Marshall cab I have. But, maybe not. I need to measure them both one of these days. I like the older Marshall cabs too. And, Jim down at Scumback has a nice replica that he sells. A gather the Metro replica's are the shiz too. Bogner stuff's the back panel of the new cabs too with about 1 1/2" of insulation.

Yeah, floating baffle means the board is screwed in from the rear which always leaves a gap (air leak) around the baffle and inner frame. Thats why some guys put caulking around this gap. A floating baffle can be removed. You can always see a bit of grill cloth poking through to the inside. Mills is this way too.

Fixed baffle means the board is permanently dadoed or doweled into the shell of the cab during construction. This airtight method creates a harder, less vintage response. Less air leakage = more punch. Mesa builds like this as well.


I forgot about the insulation !

I was surprised that the Spamback replica cab had premium baltic birch throughout but then they put those caster wells on the top. Yeah I know its a replica cab but I hate those things. Why carve out more wood than you need too ? I'd guess it sounds quite different than the Bogner ?

Gotchs mate.......thanks for the info.

 

[lester]

I heard the idea behind this Dacron stuff is to sort of trick the speaker into reacting like it's in a larger enclosure. Trying it in different place inside the cab or a different size may work for you.

 

[Devilinside]

I'm glad this came up! I've owned the uber,OS Port city,mesa OS, and now have a VHT fatbottom and a 1960! I've got 30's in the VHT and the 30/75 x in the marshall. The VHT is tighter but I think I actually like the marshall more than any I've owned, maybe that's blasphemy because I know the others are built better, but the marshall with the right speakers too me just has enough bottom but not sub lows that equal out well with the mids. Of course the amp you're using plays a big part but the FORTIN loves that $325 marshall! I will say I've yet to play through a vintage marshall and there is a 73 marshall local I may check out.

 

[Red_Label]

I don't pretend to know all the technical details... but I can tell you that my Bogner Ubercab sounds bigger and fuller than my JCM900 era 1960B. And it's not just speakers, as I've moved those around experimenting with different combos and such. Honestly, the Marshall cab sounds great. But the Bogner unquestionably has tone and mojo that the Marshall does not have. That comment has been made by all who've witnessed both cabs. And yeah, I've had three Bogner cabs and all were made well, had insulation on the back panel, and used VERY thick (as in pinky-thick) speaker cable. In fact, the speaker cable is sometimes an issue, because my 40-watt soldering iron doesn't have the juice to deal with it very well. I need to get a bigger iron or a gun just to deal with Bogner's wire!

 

[steve_k]

I have changed speakers around in 4 of the 5 Bogner cabs. The first thing I do is remove all that big ass 10 gauge wire. Fuck, you could jump start a car with that shit. I go back with 14 gauge lamp cord. Then, I remove the grill and take the white piping off. Then, I put another screw through the front of the baffle to better secure the 2x2 stiffener thing, and replace the grill. So far, I haven't removed any of the stuffing.

 

[stratotone]

I have a couple of '73 marshall cabs with plywood backs, not MDF - I think that makes a difference also. It all depends on the amp though... my SLO sounded best through a marshall V30 cab that was fairly recent... I have an oversize recto cab with leather and the 'armor' and it sounds like shit with anything but my rackmount recto.

 

[steve_k]

I have a couple of '73 marshall cabs with plywood backs, not MDF - I think that makes a difference also. It all depends on the amp though... my SLO sounded best through a marshall V30 cab that was fairly recent... I have an oversize recto cab with leather and the 'armor' and it sounds like shit with anything but my rackmount recto.

same observation here with the o/s recto cabs. they don't seem to work for me with anything but a mesa.

 

[glassjaw7]

I have a couple of '73 marshall cabs with plywood backs, not MDF - I think that makes a difference also. It all depends on the amp though... my SLO sounded best through a marshall V30 cab that was fairly recent... I have an oversize recto cab with leather and the 'armor' and it sounds like shit with anything but my rackmount recto.

same observation here with the o/s recto cabs. they don't seem to work for me with anything but a mesa.

I agree. They sound good with rectos, Marks and I tried mine with an Engl Powerball and like it alot. The Traditional/Stiletto cabs sound great with Marshalls and other similar voiced amps IMO. The smaller enclosure makes a world of difference in balancing out the tone and getting rid of that excessive low end and scooped mid range of the OS Mesa cab.

 

[thegame]

I never understood the whole insulation thing? A good sounding, well made, resonant cabinet should not need pillow stuffing.

You don't want too much resonance in a guitar cab, otherwise the tone become unfocused. The insulation helps supress resonance in key frequencies.

 

[steve_k]

I never understood the whole insulation thing? A good sounding, well made, resonant cabinet should not need pillow stuffing.

me neither, but they suit me.

hey don, what do you think about that metro cab, as compared to some of the production stuff?

 

[Red_Label]

I have changed speakers around in 4 of the 5 Bogner cabs. The first thing I do is remove all that big ass 10 gauge wire. Fuck, you could jump start a car with that shit.