Mesa V30's. Regular V30's. ????

  • Thread starter Thread starter thiswaythatway
  • Start date Start date
thiswaythatway

thiswaythatway

Well-known member
I just saw a post on TGP that made a lot of sense. I often see people complaining about V30's and an upper mid spike. I used to gig with a Mesa 2x12 vertical cab with V30's and i picked up a horizontal Recto 2x12 last week with V30's.

I don't hear any upper mid spike and IMHO these cabs sound killer with V30's. They sound great in the room and they sound killer recorded. I couldn't get any tones recorded that i liked using the EVM 200 watt speaker. It took me no time at all to get tones i liked with the Mes 2x12 with V30's though.

Now, getting back to the post on TGP. Someone brought up the fact that V30's are 60watt speakers, but in mesa cabs they're listed at 70watts. Does Mesa do something to the speakers. It seems they do a similiar thing with the CL80's. When they're done with them those speakers are MC90's.

So i wonder if there's really a difference and that's why the V30's seem to work so well in Boogie cabs. Although, i have listened to Bogner cabs loaded with V30's and they sound killer to me. I am using a Mark III head with the Recto 2x12 so i can dial in the tone with the EQ. I'm not sure if I'm able to dial out any annoying frequences with the EQ that somene else might have problems with.
 
Mesa's are UK made I believe, whereas the rest are built somewhere in Asia? I have no clue how much that impacts the upper mid spike, however.
 
I've had Bogner, Randall, Marshall, and Mesa cabs all with V30's and I never hear the "annoying mid spike" thing that people complain about. All the cabs did sound slightly different, but I really liked all of them.
 
i read somewhere that atleast for awhile in the past that Mesa had a bunch of the English made speakers around?

who knows now?


isn't there supposed to be a deferent V30 that was made for that SS Marshall amp cab?
 
sitting here looking at a Mesa price list.


they got 12" Fillmore V30 70watt = $109


then 12" Celestion V30 60watt = $109
 
danyeo":1u3ft4cj said:
I just saw a post on TGP that made a lot of sense. I often see people complaining about V30's and an upper mid spike. I used to gig with a Mesa 2x12 vertical cab with V30's and i picked up a horizontal Recto 2x12 last week with V30's.

I don't hear any upper mid spike and IMHO these cabs sound killer with V30's. They sound great in the room and they sound killer recorded. I couldn't get any tones recorded that i liked using the EVM 200 watt speaker. It took me no time at all to get tones i liked with the Mes 2x12 with V30's though.

Now, getting back to the post on TGP. Someone brought up the fact that V30's are 60watt speakers, but in mesa cabs they're listed at 70watts. Does Mesa do something to the speakers. It seems they do a similiar thing with the CL80's. When they're done with them those speakers are MC90's.

So i wonder if there's really a difference and that's why the V30's seem to work so well in Boogie cabs. Although, i have listened to Bogner cabs loaded with V30's and they sound killer to me. I am using a Mark III head with the Recto 2x12 so i can dial in the tone with the EQ. I'm not sure if I'm able to dial out any annoying frequences with the EQ that somene else might have problems with.
Click to expand...

I think Mesa used to in the past have their own V30, but then at some point switched to the regular production V30's (just a guess though).

Mesa developing their own speaker line (the Fillmore's mentioned in the above post) may have had something to do with it.
 
For one thing, no matter how much of an emphasis some speaker may have on a certain frequency range, depending on the amp, it's not necessarily going to sound that way.

And as for the harsh upper mid spike in V30s, I've never heard it, either. The current Celestion V30s sound kind of cardboardy to me with lots of amps, though. The voicing of the speaker doesn't really allow for much emphasis on higher frequencies, so maybe people crank their treble and presence to try to get around that, which could easily make them harsh, but while still sounding middy. So what you get is people thinking they have mids that will hurt your ears, which they assume to be upper mids, but it's really just that the highs are kind of rolled off, so the lower range of them comes through, which is what is most likely to sound harsh, and the rest doesn't so much.

I hate these charts because they're so damn hard to read, but here's the V30:

vintage_30.gif


And here's a regular Greenback:

g12_m_greenback.gif


Even compared to a Greenback, you can see how the highs drop off steeper, and the point at where it starts, around 3-4 kHz, is a bit more prominent than it is with the Greenback. So in comparison, if you're turning up the treble to compensate for that with the V30s, then you still have an extra emphasis on 3-4 kHz, which is the range most likely to hurt your ears, but it's not going to have as much effect on anything beyond that.

The biggest difference between the two is that the V30 has a lot more between 1-2 kHz, but that's not what hurts your ears. However, considering how close that is to the range we'd consider to be the treble, it makes it harder to perceive the treble, and might lead you to believe that the midrange is harsh, since that's what's calling the attention of your ears, even though those harsh frequencies could still be there and hurting your ears. They just aren't calling as much attention to themselves as the mids are, if that makes any sense.

That's just my best guess, though. Like I said, I still haven't heard it, and I like really bright sounds and have played amps cranked through cabs with V30s plenty of times, so I don't know wtf the deal is with this general conception that they're harsh.
 
I don't know if Mesa does anything to them, but I have the complete opposite opinion of them in Mesa cabs. They sound awful in those. The annoying midrange spike was DEFINITELY there, and that's what led me to get rid of all of them in my Recto cab. I mean, guitar's a midrange instrument, but there's good sounding mids and bad sounding mids. Whatever the V30s are emphasizing doesn't sound good to me at all. Currently I think a combination of greenbacks and G1275ts sound best in the recto cabs, but what do I know.

I do agree however, that V30s tend to mic up REAL well. But so do greenbacks. :thumbsup:
 
I don't know what you are talking about, Mesas are 120W. Here is the link
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/ ... 12H-LG.htm

I own one & it's 120W too & sounds good. Could be people who wouldn't like it? Of course. Taste is a tricky thing. I have had good luck with EVs too, their cleans sound killer.

An email from Bogner confirmed that V30s they use are most likely made in China & also said that they actually compared them to British made speakers & liked the ones made in China better for their taste. It's been about 5 years since they've moved their production to China, I think it's safe to assume that Mesas come with Chinese v30 too.
 
nbarts":2lj98cv6 said:
I don't know what you are talking about, Mesas are 120W. Here is the link
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/ ... 12H-LG.htm

I own one & it's 120W too & sounds good. Could be people who wouldn't like it? Of course. Taste is a tricky thing. I have had good luck with EVs too, their cleans sound killer.
Click to expand...

The jack plate on mine says otherwise. 280 watt. It's an older recto 4x12 cab. 280/4 = 70 watts each.

3.jpg
 
My recto cab says exactly that. I have 2 of the speakers right here. They look a little 'beefy' to my retarded eye but its been years since I saw another v30 up close.
 
I guess they are regular V-30 speakers now. I know there used to be something that was slightly different about the mesa speakers. Something in the way they were made that equaled the 70 watt rating. I can't remember exactly what it was that was different though. :confused: I guess I am not much of a help other than to confirm there was a difference.
 
Mesa rates them at 70 watts.

"The test cab came loaded with Mesa/Boogie’s proprietary Vintage 30 8Ω speakers, which, according to Mesa/Boogie’s Doug West, provide a crisper attack and tighter sound compared to the 16ΩVintage 30s commonly found in 4x12 cabinets. Most Celestion speakers are now assembled in China, but Mesa/Boogie’s are still made in England using old-fashioned air-dried adhesives, instead of modern fast-drying types. (Different adhesives have different weights and other properties, and speakers can be sensitive to these subtle tone-altering differences.) "

from here:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Reviews/Stile ... oGP-05.htm
 
Don't forget the different types of woods or the way a cab is built can have an over all effect on the way a speaker sounds. ie: a dropped tuned guitar will sound different through a cab that is made from 14 ply void less Birch that is air tight like a Mesa Vrs a cab that is made from Poplar that is not sealed with the same speaker. Or you can go real deep and get into cab design.
 
OneArmedScissor":1sx9pdpw said:
For one thing, no matter how much of an emphasis some speaker may have on a certain frequency range, depending on the amp, it's not necessarily going to sound that way.

And as for the harsh upper mid spike in V30s, I've never heard it, either. The current Celestion V30s sound kind of cardboardy to me with lots of amps, though. The voicing of the speaker doesn't really allow for much emphasis on higher frequencies, so maybe people crank their treble and presence to try to get around that, which could easily make them harsh, but while still sounding middy. So what you get is people thinking they have mids that will hurt your ears, which they assume to be upper mids, but it's really just that the highs are kind of rolled off, so the lower range of them comes through, which is what is most likely to sound harsh, and the rest doesn't so much.

I hate these charts because they're so damn hard to read, but here's the V30:

vintage_30.gif


And here's a regular Greenback:

g12_m_greenback.gif


Even compared to a Greenback, you can see how the highs drop off steeper, and the point at where it starts, around 3-4 kHz, is a bit more prominent than it is with the Greenback. So in comparison, if you're turning up the treble to compensate for that with the V30s, then you still have an extra emphasis on 3-4 kHz, which is the range most likely to hurt your ears, but it's not going to have as much effect on anything beyond that.

The biggest difference between the two is that the V30 has a lot more between 1-2 kHz, but that's not what hurts your ears. However, considering how close that is to the range we'd consider to be the treble, it makes it harder to perceive the treble, and might lead you to believe that the midrange is harsh, since that's what's calling the attention of your ears, even though those harsh frequencies could still be there and hurting your ears. They just aren't calling as much attention to themselves as the mids are, if that makes any sense.

That's just my best guess, though. Like I said, I still haven't heard it, and I like really bright sounds and have played amps cranked through cabs with V30s plenty of times, so I don't know wtf the deal is with this general conception that they're harsh.
Click to expand...

On these charts, you should really only look at the frequencies between 84hz and 3000hz though. The guitar really only reproduces sounds in this range. If you down tune, it goes lower, and if you get into some squeeling feedback, it'll go higher, but you should focus on that range. In that range, I found that most of the celestion charts are pretty close. Smoothest to sharpest mids order: G12-65's, G12T-75's, Greenbacks, G12H-30's, V30's, CL80's.
 
I bought a new Mesa Traditional size Recto 4x12 last summer. It's rated at 240 watts (60 x 4).

I know that the V30's in the Marshall 1960AV cabs are rated at 70 watts though. I read that these are a collaborated designed V30 between Marshall and Celestion for use in Marshall cabs.

Whether Mesa used these before, I don't know. But I do know that my Mesa cab has four 60 watt V30's.
 
D-Rock":pbs9u3r3 said:
I bought a new Mesa Traditional size Recto 4x12 last summer. It's rated at 240 watts (60 x 4).

I know that the V30's in the Marshall 1960AV cabs are rated at 70 watts though. I read that these are a collaborated designed V30 between Marshall and Celestion for use in Marshall cabs.

Whether Mesa used these before, I don't know. But I do know that my Mesa cab has four 60 watt V30's.
Click to expand...

Let the rumors of the "older Mesa cabs sound better than the newer cabs" begin!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top