MOD 50 / M4 Rig Problem...HELP!

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bbaug14

bbaug14

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Today I moved my rack gear from one rack to another. Before I moved everything my rig was sounding glorious, but after it all sounds very flat and lifeless. Not sure what the issue is. I hooked everything back up the same way it was for the most part (see below) and it's not sounding good.

I though maybe a tube issue was going on so I just hooked up the MOD 50 by itself and played through that and it sounded fantastic. I then changed the tubes out of the M4, even though I knew this wasn't the issue, and sure enough, still sounding flat and lifeless. The MOD 50 sounds great just plugged in direct but when I run through the full rig, it sounds like crap.

Here's how I have things working right now:

M4 MIDI IN -> GCX MIDI OUT
M4 MIDI THRU -> MOD 50 MIDI IN

On the GCX I have loops 1 -> 4 jumpered and pedals on each. I then jumper the OUT of Loop 4 to the IN of Loop 7. I have M4 OUT -> Loop 7 RETURN and M4 INPUT -> Loop 7 SEND. I then have the OUT Loop 7 -> IN Loop 8. Then:

SEND LOOP 8 -> INPUT MOD 50
RETURN LOOP 8 -> SERIAL SEND MOD 50
OUT LOOP 8 -> SERIAL RETURN MOD 50

All my patches still work and the midi switching is all working just fine. The ONLY changes I made when transferring my gear was that I put my TS in LOOP 2 and my OCD in LOOP 3. Before the TS was in LOOP 3 and the OCD was in LOOP 2.

I can't for the life of me think of what to try next. I get sound on all modules all channels with more gain on channel B. Everything is working, it's just all sounding very dull and nothing like it did before I made the change.

Any suggestions???
 
You messed up a cable when moving it.....?

How's it sound going direct into the M4 then taking one of the outs direct into the series return on the MOD50?
 
Still using all the same cables?

Were you using the buffer last time?
 
Just tried the M4 alone and it sounds fantastic.

Now I'm really stumped. If the MOD 50 / M4 / GCX connections weren't right, I'd either get no sound or just sound from the MOD 50 and it would be just clean. I'm getting channel switching and everything. The only thing I can think of is potentially a crappy cable that I'm using that just faulted out.
 
Klark":1r3zf0li said:
Still using all the same cables?

Were you using the buffer last time?
Click to expand...

I actually changed the patch cables but when it wasn't working I put the older patch cables back and it was the same result. The only difference right now is that I'm using the cable that was going from the MOD 50 to the 2X12 going now for the GCX OUT -> MOD 50 SERIAL RETURN. I suppose I should try another cable.

What Buffer?
 
Problem solved. Cable is shot. D'oh!!! Thanks for the help.
 
Welp, I was wrong, problem is not solved. Last night I took my rig to practice and hooked it all up as stated above. Everything works, but the tone through the MOD50 is weak and lifeless (I only check the M4 before). Very little gain and very little volume. Channel switching with the GCP works just fine though. I don't get it. The M4 sounds fantastic, so I would have to think that the Series loop is hooked up and functioning correctly (when I hook it up wrong I normally either get no sound or only clean that doesn't change when switching channels). However, the MOD50 sounds like crap. If I plug direct into the MOD50 without the rig, it sounds great, which means it's not a preamp tube. It worked fine before, and now that I've unhooked everything and put it all back togther, it sounds horrible through the MOD50. Please HELP!!!!
 
Back of GCX send to Front of amp input..... GCX return goes to send of loop..... GCX final signal out to return loop of amp... is that how you have it?
M4 send /return into the send/return loop of GCX.
 
jlbaxe":3dr95qrg said:
Back of GCX send to Front of amp input..... GCX return goes to send of loop..... GCX final signal out to return loop of amp... is that how you have it?
M4 send /return into the send/return loop of GCX.
Click to expand...

I'm not at home right now to triple check, but I'm 99.999% sure that this is the way I have it. Not only that, but I tried every combination between the three (MOD50 Input, Series Return/Send) just to ensure that I didn't hook it up wrong. When it is wrong, I either get no signal at all or just clean through all channels all modules. When it is right (as stated above) I get channel switching and changes, but the modules on the MOD50 have very little gain and volume. It's very strange. What's even worse is that it wasn't like this before and now that I changed to a different rack, I can't figure out what happened.
 
Its in the series loop and not the parallel? Parallel has mix/vol knob

The Jacks in the back of the GCX are hard to see somewhat. could be out of sync meaning guitar in front-rear patch cable loop from guitar out to in on loop 1-send/return (m4)-loop 1 out- "patch cable" to loop2 in- in/out- and loop2 out to return series loop.

Just trying to trigger a thought. Like AHHHHHH forgot the patch cable/ added a patch cable and pushed the last jack into the loop 3 area or everything was shifted down or back a jack. I have done that. :doh:
 
jlbaxe":11coozko said:
Its in the series loop and not the parallel? Parallel has mix/vol knob

The Jacks in the back of the GCX are hard to see somewhat. could be out of sync meaning guitar in front-rear patch cable loop from guitar out to in on loop 1-send/return (m4)-loop 1 out- "patch cable" to loop2 in- in/out- and loop2 out to return series loop.

Just trying to trigger a thought. Like AHHHHHH forgot the patch cable/ added a patch cable and pushed the last jack into the loop 3 area or everything was shifted down or back a jack. I have done that. :doh:
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's definitely in the series loop. I almost had an, "Oh SHIT!" moment there, but when I transferred everything from the first rack to the second I marked it all on a piece of paper and then hooked it back up exactly the same way. Series Loop is the last loop on the MOD 50 (Furthest right when looking from the back) and that's where I have it. No doubt in my mind.

I'll definitely check to make sure I have all the jacks connected properly when I get home today, but I'm pretty confident that I do. I am getting sound and channel switching and the M4 sounds great, and I don't think that would work if it was hooked up wrong. The only thing I can think of is that for some reason the MOD50 is hooked up wrong. The M4 would still get power from the MOD50 and work if the MOD50 wasn't hooked up right and the M4 was. I can't come to any other conclusion. All the pedals work fine with the M4 so they are good and the M4 works. I get sound through the MOD50 but it's just flat, low volume, and lifeless. Not sure what would cause that. I get channel switching and you can definitely hear the difference between each channel. I would think if it was hooked up wrong, I wouldn't get any sound or just clean sound and no channel switching. It's friggin got me stumped.
 
It sounds to me like you're not running thru the buffer and because you're splitting your signal to 2 amps, the Mod 50 input signal is suffering. I have a very similar setup except I use an RJM RG-16. This might help....

On the GCX: Are you running the guitar signal In to the "Guitar In" on the front panel?
This input feeds 2 buffered outputs on the rear: "Guitar Out" and "Feed Through". These 2 ouptuts go to the inputs of the 2 amps. You then switch in/out the amps by connecting their outputs (or FX send) to the Return of 2 loops (ABY) or one amps output to a Loops input and the other the same Loops return (if you're just A/B'ing them).
If you're not running through the front input, you are not using the buffer which in turn will suck your tone, feel and response big time.

This is what I remember about using the GCX in this config. Hope it helps....
 
I actually am plugging into the Guitar IN on the GCX.

Question. Could it be possible that using a bunch of long cables is my problem? The cables I have running from the GCX to the MOD 50 Input/Send/Return are all 12'. Then I have a 25' cable running from the GCX to my pedal board and another 25' cable running to my guitar. I'm curious if the long runs are killing my tone at the MOD 50. Still, it's strange that the M4 would sound fine last night but not the MOD 50.

Also, before I had two 12' cables running to the MOD 50 and one 1' cable. I changed the 1' cable to a 12' when my amp wasn't a part of my rack anymore. I hope this isn't the issue because I have to run a 25' cable to my pedal board and a 25' cable to my guitar. I could shorten the ones running to the MOD 50 though.

Your thoughts???
 
Okay, after further investigation.....I just hooked up my MOD50 by itself. Guitar staight into amp. I turn it on Low Power and put the Master at noon. Hit EG5 and I'm getting major buzzing. It's not only just buzzing, but while it's buzzing it's clicking too. Bzzzzzzz zzz zzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. This doesn't sound right. Any idea what this could be? This is very strange. The only thing I can think of is that it's from when I changed the power tubes on the MOD 50 but it was sounding great before, so I'm not sure what could be the problem. HELP!!!!
 
Id change the modules out with two from the m4 and see if that does anything. If not check your power tubes and the bias. I had an issue where if I tapped my fingers on the top it would echo like a reverb tank. I messed with the tubes and took out the main tubes then re biased them. Also found if my modules were not screwed in tight it caused the echo thingy. Tube amps are a strange beast sometimes.
 
I'll give that a try right now. One other thing that is really strange. I plug into an A/B box. So, I plug into A and MOD50 and M4 sound dead this time. Plug into B, both are loud but lots of feedback. Plug back into A and turn both sides on, A works fine. So, I take A/B box out of the chain, lots of feedback again. This is driving me crazy. I know my A/B box is fine too. Also, I switch the cables running to the serial loop of the MOD 50 back to the ones I was originally using before, everything sounds flat this time. Last night, the M4 sounded fine with those cables. There is no rhyme or reason to any of this.
 
I just swapped the modules and rebiased. The bias was spot on. Also, the modules didn't make any difference. With anything that has a little bit higher gain (SLX, EG5, etc.) I'm just getting a ridiculous amount of buzz from the amp. It's just as loud as what I play with the master at noon. Also, when I turn on my tuner, you can hear a loud SSSHHH sound coming from the cab. It almost sounds like white noise. I've never heard this before with the tuner on. I think there's a problem with the MOD 50. I don't even have it hooked up to the M4 rig at all now and I'm still getting really loud buzzing and now this ssshhh noise. No idea what's going on right now.
 
Start with guitar into the Mod50 into a cabinet. Get that working first. Try a different guitar cable into mod50 do the same for the speaker cable into cab. When that works test each cable you are using with that set up. If all cables work then add the next piece.

Im running a TC G system into my Mod50 with 20 feet lengths, (3, send/return/input) of TSR stereo live wire and it hasnt affected my tone.

My M4 is in the GCX switcher with my RMod100 and a GCP pedal with a Furman RV1 reverb in the Parallel loop and sounds fine. My cables from the GCX to the M4 and Rmod100 are only 3 feet long. I am running my RMod100 in loop 1 and M4 in loop 2 of the GCX which took me a few minutes to figure out but made it easier to program. Guitar into front of GCX as simple as I could make it.
 
Okay, I tried changing the power tubes to the stock tubes and rebiasing. No change. I tried several different cables. No change. I tired different modules. No change. I tried different guitars. No change. Basically, when I plug in and turn on a SL2X, EG5, etc. the amount of buzz I get from the amp is equal to or greater than the sound coming from the cab when I play. It's ridiculously loud. I have NEVER had this issue before. You can even hear a slight buzz on low gain modules like Bman A and Vox A and that's even with the master at 9.

Any suggestions out there? I know it's something to do with the MOD50 now because it's the only thing I'm using. I just can't figure out what it is. I have a gig tomorrow night. I need help!!!!
 
can you swap out the 12ax7 tubes? Id use the ones in your m4 modules to test it.
 
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