Need Renegade 2nd channel to cut better live? HELP

[jamme61]

I've gigged about four times and had the amp a couple of months. The clean channel is fine but the 2nd channel dosen't cut through the mix? Ive recently tried running the gain at 9 to 10 oclock with the deep switch on and brite switch on ,with bass at -11 mids at - 2 and treble at - 3, not good ,kind of flat not cutting. Tried with deep switch off which made me need more gain and bass but, still not good(missing that high mid punch of a marshall). In the end I settled on deep off, brite on, gain at 1 oclock, bass at 12 noon, mids at 2 and treble at 3, still not happy with the cut, its missing something? Have tried mids all the way up and other crazy settings but it dosen't sound right. I'm runing thru a THD 2x12 with celestion 12h and vintage 30 speakers. I have a marshall 2204 jcm 800 and a Plexi that cut like crazy but getting a great clean like the egg, is not gonna happen. I play classic rock covers with some blues and pop thrown in so I need that clean channel. How do you guys run your Renegade? I should also add, I have the channel masters at 12 to 1 oclock and the main master at 11 oclock. Thanks for any info I don't want to sell the amp but I'm getting close.

 

[marvcus]

Hmmm. I think what surprises me most is that you have a V30 and it still is not cutting.

Your settings sound reasonable (mids / treble seem at settings where they should cut through well).

Only thing I would say would be to scale back the gain a tad and crank the channel masters up a little more and see if that helps.

Is there more than one guitarist in your band? Are you competing with any other instruments for your tone range?

Is that the same cab you use for the 2204 and the Plexi?

 

[jamme61]

Thanks for the time on this. I'm in a three piece band, so only guitar, bass, and drums. I only use the THD 2x12 with all my amps. I'm running my presense at 11 oclock and desity at 9 oclock. Just messing and came up with - gain 10 oclock, tight and brite on, bass and treble, all the way up and mids at 11, with presense at 12 oclock. ABing this with my jcm 800 is close but, the marshall has this cool mid range growl with a top end and clear bottom end that is Impossible to get (so far) There's a bright cap (4700 pf) on the marshalls gain pot, I was thinking of trying this out on the Renegade? I'm assuming that the brite switch on the renegade, is a brite cap on the gain pot but, can't get a schematic. I think its time to open up the renegade.

 

[JeepGuy04]

What about an EQ pedal? I got a Boss GE-7 EQ for my rebel 30 a month ago. I put it in my loop and I can get some cool tones. It helps me cut and boost some frequencies nicely.

 

[jamme61]

What about an EQ pedal? I got a Boss GE-7 EQ for my rebel 30 a month ago. I put it in my loop and I can get some cool tones. It helps me cut and boost some frequencies nicely.

Yea that would work too. I been using a tube sceamer, to make it cut but, the swiching all this stuff on and off, when changing channels and trying to hit some effects, on or off and still sing the song (crazy), is a pain in the arse and I'm just not that talented to handle all this stuff LOL. I just want to set up my clean and crunch sound straight from the amp (one button to push).

 

[just42dave]

mine has been slacking but thats in a 2 guitar band

 

[JeepGuy04]

What about an EQ pedal? I got a Boss GE-7 EQ for my rebel 30 a month ago. I put it in my loop and I can get some cool tones. It helps me cut and boost some frequencies nicely.

Yea that would work too. I been using a tube sceamer, to make it cut but, the swiching all this stuff on and off, when changing channels and trying to hit some effects, on or off and still sing the song (crazy), is a pain in the arse and I'm just not that talented to handle all this stuff LOL. I just want to set up my clean and crunch sound straight from the amp (one button to push).

Haha, yeah I can barely sing and play... plus the switching I see what you mean...

 

[11justin22]

your settings sound like they should be cutting, are u running on the el34 side for marshally sound? also maybe try swapping some preamp tubes, mine came with sovtek wich aren't my favorite. can't rember what i put in as i had a bunch lying around. i just swapped until i found what i was looking for. lots of bark and bite and im running the stock egnater speaker in the combo.

 

[jamme61]

your settings sound like they should be cutting, are u running on the el34 side for marshally sound? also maybe try swapping some preamp tubes, mine came with sovtek wich aren't my favorite. can't rember what i put in as i had a bunch lying around. i just swapped until i found what i was looking for. lots of bark and bite and im running the stock egnater speaker in the combo.

Thanks, I did change all the preamp tubes, from what I had (NOS, Chinese, JJ, ) and I'm runing 4 el34's (like em better ,even for my cleans) I have the chassis out and was messing with the value of the cathode resistor on V3a. Stk the value is 4.7K = 220 volts on pin 1. with alligator clips and a sub box, I came up with 820 OHMS, with a .68 cap in parallel = 140 volts on pin 1 and a lot more gain and punch. It's late, the kids are sleeping, so I really don't know if this is better yet. Have to check it out more at volume. I hope this doesn't piss anybody off? I like to mess with my amps and I know this voids my warranty. I'll give more info if anyone is interested. Thanks for all the help on this stuff.

 

[jamme61]

Just a FYI if anyone is interested? I went with a .047 cap in parallel with the stk 4.7K cathode resistor on V3A. This gives me that high mid thing I get with my Marshall. You could get crazy here and add a lot of gain but, That's not what I want. There's a open spot on the board to mount the cap C37. Remember you can get killed inside a tube amp and you void your warranty

 

[Anolin]

I'm surprised you had to mod it to get the mids/highs you needed... The 2nd channel seems like it would have no problems cutting through, especially in a one-guitar band.

 

[jamme61]

I'm surprised you had to mod it to get the mids/highs you needed... The 2nd channel seems like it would have no problems cutting through, especially in a one-guitar band.

I can hear myself in the band but, I found the 2nd channel flat sounding. A lot of my problem is playing a plexi and a jcm 800 all my life, it's not better or worse you just get used to that sound. I have to play the amp with the band to see if I like the cap in there. I started this post to see if I was missing something EQ wise before I got into it more.

 

[Anolin]

I'm surprised you had to mod it to get the mids/highs you needed... The 2nd channel seems like it would have no problems cutting through, especially in a one-guitar band.

I can hear myself in the band but, I found the 2nd channel flat sounding. A lot of my problem is playing a plexi and a jcm 800 all my life, it's not better or worse you just get used to that sound. I have to play the amp with the band to see if I like the cap in there. I started this post to see if I was missing something EQ wise before I got into it more.

That makes more sense! And you're right, if you're used to a particular sound, then a different amp could sound bright/flat/full/thin to you whereas it could sound great to someone else. Glad you could resolve it though and yours is the first real "mod" I've read about on the Renegade... Changing tubes, speakers, etc not included.

 

[jamme61]

I'm surprised you had to mod it to get the mids/highs you needed... The 2nd channel seems like it would have no problems cutting through, especially in a one-guitar band.

I can hear myself in the band but, I found the 2nd channel flat sounding. A lot of my problem is playing a plexi and a jcm 800 all my life, it's not better or worse you just get used to that sound. I have to play the amp with the band to see if I like the cap in there. I started this post to see if I was missing something EQ wise before I got into it more.

That makes more sense! And you're right, if you're used to a particular sound, then a different amp could sound bright/flat/full/thin to you whereas it could sound great to someone else. Glad you could resolve it though and yours is the first real "mod" I've read about on the Renegade... Changing tubes, speakers, etc not included.

That points out how great this amp is stk. It's me, I'm the only nut out there messing with it. If I could only be happy, LOL. I'm putting it back stk THE END

 

[Keith Johns]

I use a Boss GE-7 EQ "modded by Pedal Mods UK" to tweak the mids a bit more, I have found I'm using the renegade with the mid full on for real gainy sounds and the GE-7 to push the mids to the front more. Pedal Mods UK take a crap "unusable" noisy GE-7 and make it silent and that's silent even when boosting to the extreme.