Need some advice about Friedman amps (Runt)

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Z_13

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Hello Rig-Talkers!!

I used to own a BE100, and reluctantly sold it. Still one of the biggest regrets of my life :(

Since then I promised myself I would own another one day....one day.

I've been eyeballing the Runt series of Friedman amps. From what I understand it has a similar dirty channel to the BE, without as many bells and whistles. Has a pretty nice clean channel as well. It's also made on a printed circuit board, rather than being hand-wired. (which is one of the reasons it's cheaper) With that being said, almost every amp I've played has been on a PC board, and I never had much of an issue. I believe if done with a good quality board, and components, that the amp should have no issues, and sound great.

I just want to know if any of you have experience with the Runt 50 head? If you could compare it to the BE100, or any other amp?

I really want to get another BE100, but figured while I was saving up some money, and getting my finances together, maybe I could buy a Runt 50 for the time being, and upgrade to the BE100 down the road? Would you guys think that would be a good idea?

To make a long story short....is the Runt 50 a good amp? Will it do Rock/Metal good? Do you guys think it's a good alternative to a BE100 (while I save up for one)?

Thanks!!
 
I owned a Runt 50 for a few months. It's a damn good sounding amp for sure, but it isn't the same as the BE-100. I haven't played a BE-100, but a RT member here (I'm blanking on his name) has played both and says the same thing. My Friedman modded JCA-20 sounded a lot better than the Runt 50 and that's ultimately why I sold the Runt.


Now having said that, if you dig the Friedman voicing thing, you'll like the Runt. Will you love the Runt? Hard to say. I keep telling myself I want to give it another try.
 
Not enough gain. Even with a boost, I couldn't get the level of aggressiveness needed for metal. It's not a metal amp, at all.

Personally, I'd look at a Splawn.
 
I own both and have for some time now. To me they sound similar but different as do all Friedman amps. I'm sure that was Dave's intention when designing the Runt. It's has a killer sounding hot rodded Marshall tone with a great clean channel and FX loop. The direct out is pretty nice too for recordind and live. No, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles the the BE has but your getting what you're paying for. It doesn't lack in the tone department either but if you're looking to do metal you might need to add a boost depending on how much gain you need. I use one for solos for that little extra.

The PC board is definitely not an issue. Too many guys get caught up in this thinking the amp is of less quality because the builder uses them. It's made of great quality...not like a lot of the cheap over seas products that are out that use very thin boards that are more prone to cracking. Many boutique builders use PC boards in all their amps.

If your on the fence, I wouldn't hesitate. Look for a used one and you'll get your money right back out of it if you decide to move up to a BE100.
 
I played a new BE 100, Runt 50 and an 87 JCM800 2204 at a GC in MPLS last year. The BE was awesome, and a HUGE improvement over the past versions IMO. But the 800 blew the doors off the runt, not even close. Runt was way too polite for me, and just a little more gain than the JCM. But it was neutered compared to the 800. If I were you I'd just wait and save for the BE, or look for a used 800 for much less than the runt and throw a pedal in front.
 
napalmdeath":1q2k5pse said:
Not enough gain. Even with a boost, I couldn't get the level of aggressiveness needed for metal. It's not a metal amp, at all..
Click to expand...

Yup, this... I really wanted the Runt to be my next amp but felt the same about the lack of gain. On the fence about getting a Butterslax... $3800 is a lot for dorking around with home recording lol.
 
I returned mine I bought from Sweetwater, it started cutting out at band practice and it didn't sound any better than my 87 2210 Marshall(it had a little tighter low end, surprising since its a 50w, but the 2210 just has more punch and attitude)
but, it certainly wasn't a bad sounding amp, I just didn't want to deal with getting a new amp fixed, most likely just a tube problem, but whatever.
 
I've tried it... but didn't like it. It sounds different from the BE100. Not in a good way.
 
Thanks for all the responses!! Sorry it took me a while to get back...

I might have asked this question in a wrong way, I know that the Runt will not sound like the BE, but I love the Friedman tone, the clarity....I'm looking for a good amp to build my tone on, something that might be similar to the BE, but not exact (only a BE sounds like a BE, lol). Another thing is I have to buy it from Sweetwater, I'll be using my Sweetwater CC.

I currently own a Bogner Uberschall that I'm looking to sell, it's actually too aggressive for my current playing style. I used to play in rock/metal bands, and the Uberschall was my go-to amp....now I play more bluesy, clean stuff to prog rock/hard rock...slight metal.

The Runt 50 seems to have a very nice, usable clean channel. The overdrive channel seems very dynamic, and rich....not too much gain on tap, but I can only imagine that a high gain overdrive pedal (such as a precision drive, or the new Keeley Filaments) could boost the amp to high gain territory. I know napalmdeath stated even with a boost there isn't enough gain, but what kind of boost/OD pedal were you using? Is it true you really can't boost this amp into high gain if wanted?

For those who have played this amp, or have extensive knowledge on this amp, I'm looking for a stand alone review/opinion. Not necessarily comparing it to the BE, but just want to know what the Runt has to offer. Once again, I can't try it out for myself....I just have a weird feeling it might be the amp for me?

My sales engineer at Sweetwater, and I have been bouncing ideas back and forth. The other amps I'm considering are the: PRS Archon, Marshall JVM205, Fender Bassman Pro, Fender 65' Twin, Vox AC30.

I know the Bassman, Twin, and AC30 seem slightly out of place on this list, but that just proves that I'm playing more clean music, but just want the ability to get heavy if needed. Vin from the band Brand New uses a Bassman Pro head, and I absolutely love his tone. He uses various overdrive pedals to get some high gain tones, and lower gain (more breakup), so it made me consider the Bassman. Even though it's a bass amp the idea of having a super loud, super clean tone to build off of just seemed cool! The Twin was always an amp I've eyeballed, to me it has one of the best cleans on the market. I feel like this would be great in an A/B rig...same thing with the Vox. I know the Vox can get a little grittier than the Fender, but it still would be more of a clean amp (I'm guessing). I would like to get a head though, not a combo. Lastly, the Marshall seems like a cool idea...I just think that Marshall's, and Boogie's are cookie cutter. I've owned dozens of each, and always liked them, but always got rid of them.

For what it's worth, the style of music I've been writing lately could be compared to Brand New (for the cleaner/slightly heavy riffs/songs), Coheed & Cambria, Mastodon (for the heavy more "metal" or hard rock stuff). Just sharing this because maybe it could give you guys an idea of what style music I play..

Once again, any feedback is greatly appreciated!! The amount of knowledge on this forum is amazing!! Thank you everyone for all the responses so far! I hope to hear some more!!
 
Z_13":2kycdg3l said:
Thanks for all the responses!! Sorry it took me a while to get back...

I might have asked this question in a wrong way, I know that the Runt will not sound like the BE, but I love the Friedman tone, the clarity....I'm looking for a good amp to build my tone on, something that might be similar to the BE, but not exact (only a BE sounds like a BE, lol). Another thing is I have to buy it from Sweetwater, I'll be using my Sweetwater CC.

I currently own a Bogner Uberschall that I'm looking to sell, it's actually too aggressive for my current playing style. I used to play in rock/metal bands, and the Uberschall was my go-to amp....now I play more bluesy, clean stuff to prog rock/hard rock...slight metal.

The Runt 50 seems to have a very nice, usable clean channel. The overdrive channel seems very dynamic, and rich....not too much gain on tap, but I can only imagine that a high gain overdrive pedal (such as a precision drive, or the new Keeley Filaments) could boost the amp to high gain territory. I know napalmdeath stated even with a boost there isn't enough gain, but what kind of boost/OD pedal were you using? Is it true you really can't boost this amp into high gain if wanted?

For those who have played this amp, or have extensive knowledge on this amp, I'm looking for a stand alone review/opinion. Not necessarily comparing it to the BE, but just want to know what the Runt has to offer. Once again, I can't try it out for myself....I just have a weird feeling it might be the amp for me?

My sales engineer at Sweetwater, and I have been bouncing ideas back and forth. The other amps I'm considering are the: PRS Archon, Marshall JVM205, Fender Bassman Pro, Fender 65' Twin, Vox AC30.

I know the Bassman, Twin, and AC30 seem slightly out of place on this list, but that just proves that I'm playing more clean music, but just want the ability to get heavy if needed. Vin from the band Brand New uses a Bassman Pro head, and I absolutely love his tone. He uses various overdrive pedals to get some high gain tones, and lower gain (more breakup), so it made me consider the Bassman. Even though it's a bass amp the idea of having a super loud, super clean tone to build off of just seemed cool! The Twin was always an amp I've eyeballed, to me it has one of the best cleans on the market. I feel like this would be great in an A/B rig...same thing with the Vox. I know the Vox can get a little grittier than the Fender, but it still would be more of a clean amp (I'm guessing). I would like to get a head though, not a combo. Lastly, the Marshall seems like a cool idea...I just think that Marshall's, and Boogie's are cookie cutter. I've owned dozens of each, and always liked them, but always got rid of them.

For what it's worth, the style of music I've been writing lately could be compared to Brand New (for the cleaner/slightly heavy riffs/songs), Coheed & Cambria, Mastodon (for the heavy more "metal" or hard rock stuff). Just sharing this because maybe it could give you guys an idea of what style music I play..

Once again, any feedback is greatly appreciated!! The amount of knowledge on this forum is amazing!! Thank you everyone for all the responses so far! I hope to hear some more!!
Click to expand...
My reco would be order the uno and try it for yourself. I was not bowled over by it honestly and much prefer my Quick Rod (which I am selling - wink wink). I tried the Runt 20 and 50 back to back with the BE-100, Dirty Shirley and PT-20. I preferred the PT-20 by a wide margin over both the Runts.

This does not at ALL mean you would not be completely satisfied with the Runt. The Archon is a STELLAR amp but you can get for a really nice price used which is the only way I'd buy one.
 
Thanks for the reply! I appreciate any information I can get.

I've looked into the PinkTaco, and Mini Dirty Shirley before, but I kind of don't want a single channel amp. It is something to consider though....I'll bounce the idea around in my head.

What was it about the Runt that you didn't like? or what was it about the PT that you liked more? Just curious..

Thanks!!
 
Z_13":3fvzfo9m said:
Thanks for the reply! I appreciate any information I can get.

I've looked into the PinkTaco, and Mini Dirty Shirley before, but I kind of don't want a single channel amp. It is something to consider though....I'll bounce the idea around in my head.

What was it about the Runt that you didn't like? or what was it about the PT that you liked more? Just curious..

Thanks!!
Click to expand...
PT had a much more usable gain range IMO. I don;t like to HAVE to use pedals with an amp unless I am buying it as a pedal platform. I just got a Dirty Shorley 40 and the intent was to use it as a pedal platform but eff me! It has all KINDS of rock to old school metal tones in it. I'd personally take the DS Mini and use pedal dirt over the Runt UNLESS you absolutely need the volume of a 50 watt amp.
 
LP Freak":1dncji2p said:
I own both and have for some time now. To me they sound similar but different as do all Friedman amps. I'm sure that was Dave's intention when designing the Runt. It's has a killer sounding hot rodded Marshall tone with a great clean channel and FX loop. The direct out is pretty nice too for recordind and live. No, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles the the BE has but your getting what you're paying for. It doesn't lack in the tone department either but if you're looking to do metal you might need to add a boost depending on how much gain you need. I use one for solos for that little extra.

The PC board is definitely not an issue. Too many guys get caught up in this thinking the amp is of less quality because the builder uses them. It's made of great quality...not like a lot of the cheap over seas products that are out that use very thin boards that are more prone to cracking. Many boutique builders use PC boards in all their amps.

If your on the fence, I wouldn't hesitate. Look for a used one and you'll get your money right back out of it if you decide to move up to a BE100.
Click to expand...

I've played both side by side as well and agree with you 100%. Both different but the Runt holds it's own very well.
 
The Friedman Runt's were a major disappointment for me. When I first heard about them I was hyped up. Friedman tone at a affordable price? I'm not worried about hand wiring or point to point. If it sounds great but cheaper made I'm in. Not so much after I played a few. I was highly disappointed and will not buy one.

They are not bad sounding amps at all but they just are not what you expect IMO. For their price range there are so much better IMO. Just my personal preference. Some may think otherwise.
 
I love the tone I am getting with the Runt 20 head. I play in a cover band that plays everything from dance to hard rock. I have more than enough gain from just the amp with the gain set at two o'clock.
 
A few tweaks have been done to new ones going out. They can sound almost identical to the BE channel of the BE-100. It will not have more gain then that though.
 
RACKSYSTEMS":1mvygnhs said:
A few tweaks have been done to new ones going out. They can sound almost identical to the BE channel of the BE-100. It will not have more gain then that though.
Click to expand...

Interesting, that's good to know.

I'm not going after a monster, saturated, high gain...if I wanted that I'd just stick with my Uberschall. I also know the Runt is not going to be a cheaper BE100....in my opinion nothing is a BE but a BE. I'm just looking for the best amp I can buy for around $1700ish. It has to be new because I'm using my Sweetwater card, otherwise maybe I'd look into used amps.

I feel like if you ran an OD in front of the Runt it would push it into high gain, metal territory. It might not do that stock, but I'm sure you can achieve that with some high gain OD pedals.

Anyways, at this point the Runt is on the top of my list of amps to buy. The PT-20, and DS Mini seem very cool as well, but I'd really prefer a 2 channel amp.

Anything to get me back into a Friedman....the clarity, and tone is un-matched.
 
RACKSYSTEMS":qhuwydut said:
A few tweaks have been done to new ones going out. They can sound almost identical to the BE channel of the BE-100. It will not have more gain then that though.
Click to expand...

Bummer. I liked how the originals sounded and that they were different than the BE.
 
RACKSYSTEMS":35rrlxel said:
A few tweaks have been done to new ones going out. They can sound almost identical to the BE channel of the BE-100. It will not have more gain then that though.
Click to expand...
How would I be able to tell if I had a tweaked/updated Runt?
 
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