New D-moll user: Sound problem, help needed

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NVicious

NVicious

Active member
Goodday my friends,

New Diezel forum and amp user reporting for duty :)!

Let me start by showing my current setup:

IMG20131221170654.jpg


A few weeks ago I had the luck to acquire myself an Diezel D-moll :rock: .
However, after a lot of playing/testing etc etc im not fully satisfied :aww: .

I'll describe my current setup real quick:

Guitar -> ISP decimator -> Ibanez tubescreamer -> D-moll (with Bogner 4x12 RL V30's)

Gmajor2 is in the loop and tuner is on compensated out, so pretty simple right :yes: ?

Problem:

The thing i'm not liking and can't seem to get rid of is a bunch of flubbyness in the low end register. To further clarify, I have tried a ton of different settings, also tried using a tubescreamer but without many succes. Guitars I have used for this is the Ibanez prestidge 2127FX (upgraded with SD pegasus-sentient set) and some various higher end schecters with different wood and pickup combinations. Oh, and i think it's wise to mention, d-moll is brand new and not modified, rest of the gear is also brand spanking new. Only the bogner cab has a year on it.

Btw, on CH3 the above "problem" occures, on CH1 and CH2 it's acceptable.

I was thinking, is this occuring because of the cab i'm using? The Bogner is currently my only cab and I have been using it with other combinations (axe-fx, dual recto, Engl savage, kemper, mark iv, 5150 etc). In my experience RL cabs tend to sound more bassy and les tight than FL cabs.
I have experienced this overly dark/bassy sound also with the earlier mentioned combinations, only in a less "annoying" way, those amps (modelers aside) had a fairly non-dark character to my ears so there was a nice compensation going.
Because the d-moll to my ears is a darker amp and more present in the low and low-mid area and the bogner RL cab also tends to be in that area, a conflict can arrise.
For the record, i'm playing downtuned metal in B and sometimes A, tightness is a must for me.

And now for (hopefully) the solution:

Will it help if I switch from the bogner cab to, let's say, a Mesa traditional 4x12 FL or Diezel 4x12 FL?

For the moment I'm just a bit let down by the sound i'm putting out and i'm hoping that I can find somewhat of an "fix" to my problem.

If anyone could shed some light on this that would be awesome!

Thanks in advance and kind regards

Nick
 
Hi.
Welcome to the coolest forum ever !

I am also new to Diezel amps, I had my first few months ago (Dmoll).
At the beginning, I had the same problem than what you describe, with my 7 strings and my 2x12 RL v30, muddy bass. Then thanks to some advice from pro dudes on this forum, I learnt to tweak the amp and I also got a 2x12 FL with G12K100 which improves a lot the low end definition and thightness.
Last advice would be to lower the gain on channel 2 and 3, past 12, the amount is insane !!!.

Take time to learn how to get your sound out of it because it really is a piece of art !!!
For me too, in the first two weeks I asked myself if I would keep it, but the more I play it and the more I improve, and the more I think that this was my best amp purchase ever !!!

Good luck.
 
I'm rolling a Diezel 4x12 Front Load that came with 4 G12K100s and had no flub.
I read about using V30s in an X-Pattern and put some in and it is Really Perfect for my taste.
I typically mic my G12K100, I tried the V30 but think I like my G12K100 better in the mix.
I run Low Masters and Ch Volumes around Noon.
I typically do not use the Mid-Cut except for a select few songs.
Here is a snap of the settings I use, maybe it can help.

E17EF8E1-4498-4FD9-8670-9D43A22124A3.jpg
 
Kruegmeister":dyla28bd said:
I'm rolling a Diezel 4x12 Front Load that came with 4 G12K100s and had no flub.
I read about using V30s in an X-Pattern and put some in and it is Really Perfect for my taste.
I typically mic my G12K100, I tried the V30 but think I like my G12K100 better in the mix.
I run Low Masters and Ch Volumes around Noon.
I typically do not use the Mid-Cut except for a select few songs.
Here is a snap of the settings I use, maybe it can help.

E17EF8E1-4498-4FD9-8670-9D43A22124A3.jpg

Wait, not related, but are your master volume knobs gold? Or is that some weird light reflection?
 
Thanks for the reply's all, the settings im using are actually not that different from what you show in the picture so that's nice.

Regarding the cab im using, I think the best step for me at the moment is to switch to a frontloaded cab and preferably a Diezel cab.

Anyone interested in a mint rearloaded Bogner 412 with cover :D

cheers,
 
Sigma.Xiria":15xbvx9u:
Kruegmeister":15xbvx9u said:
I'm rolling a Diezel 4x12 Front Load that came with 4 G12K100s and had no flub.
I read about using V30s in an X-Pattern and put some in and it is Really Perfect for my taste.
I typically mic my G12K100, I tried the V30 but think I like my G12K100 better in the mix.
I run Low Masters and Ch Volumes around Noon.
I typically do not use the Mid-Cut except for a select few songs.
Here is a snap of the settings I use, maybe it can help.

E17EF8E1-4498-4FD9-8670-9D43A22124A3.jpg

Wait, not related, but are your master volume knobs gold? Or is that some weird light reflection?
 
Sigma.Xiria":1h5ik4th:
Wait, not related, but are your master volume knobs gold? Or is that some weird light reflection?
[/quote]

Yes, it has the Kruze Dekompression mod.
It came that way from the guy I bought it from. The Mod can be disengaged by turning a potentiometer down in back. I don't like the Mod and like the sound the way it comes factory, so I will probably uninstall it one of these days... The Gold Knobs are part of the Mod... Probably will look to replace those too... Wonder if I can get Factory ones from Peter Diezel???
 
I'm using a 2x12 with V30's and had a similar issue with the bass on my D Moll. I put a 10 band eq in front and cut the low frequencies which resolved my problem nicely.

There's lot's of love for the G12K100's but I personally haven't had a chance to try that out.
 
Sorry, but we have a deep and bass control to cut the low frequencies.
I took care to set the deep control higher than the speaker resonance.

The issue seems to be a slow bass response which is a matter of the
cabinet construction and the V30 speakers. I did a research with a
cabinet of a famous manufacture and was playing around with the
feedback loop and bass response. I also cut the bass amount of the
preamp and was not in the condition to cut out the slow bass response
of the speaker cabinet while the amp was thin sounding. Finally I increased
the plate voltage of the power amp and tried 3 output transformers with different
specs with no better result.

The solution was to use a speaker with a big coil and bigger power rating
like the K100. The V30 has more compression concerning the movement
of the speaker cone and a different resonance frequency. Please let me add
that I`m a big fan of the V30, but this speaker has his advantages and disadvantages.
It needs the right volume of the housing to avoid too much movement on the cone.
Our experience with open back cabinets/combos and the V30 was not awesome.

Don´t forget that the response also depends on your guitar and right hand attack.

On the other hand the V30 sounds brittle and fuzzy at low volumes. Walk around
the music fairs and you will hear this. Certain grill clothes absorbs this a bit.

I would check out the K100 but I don´t know if you like it.

Cheers,
Peter
 
Peter Diezel":a45otlwt said:
Sorry, but we have a deep and bass control to cut the low frequencies.
I took care to set the deep control higher than the speaker resonance.

The issue seems to be a slow bass response which is a matter of the
cabinet construction and the V30 speakers. I did a research with a
cabinet of a famous manufacture and was playing around with the
feedback loop and bass response. I also cut the bass amount of the
preamp and was not in the condition to cut out the slow bass response
of the speaker cabinet while the amp was thin sounding. Finally I increased
the plate voltage of the power amp and tried 3 output transformers with different
specs with no better result.

The solution was to use a speaker with a big coil and bigger power rating
like the K100. The V30 has more compression concerning the movement
of the speaker cone and a different resonance frequency. Please let me add
that I`m a big fan of the V30, but this speaker has his advantages and disadvantages.
It needs the right volume of the housing to avoid too much movement on the cone.
Our experience with open back cabinets/combos and the V30 was not awesome.

Don´t forget that the response also depends on your guitar and right hand attack.

On the other hand the V30 sounds brittle and fuzzy at low volumes. Walk around
the music fairs and you will hear this. Certain grill clothes absorbs this a bit.

I would check out the K100 but I don´t know if you like it.

Cheers,
Peter

Papa,

Does this apply to the entire Diezel line or just the Dmoll?

Just curious haha!
 
No, I´m not only talking about Diezel. It´s about speakers and
cabinet construction in common. I have a frontloaded cab
with V30 under my workbench and it sounds great with super
fast bass response. I like the "ooooooomph" :D
 
Peter Diezel":10neryhs said:
No, I´m not only talking about Diezel. It´s about speakers and
cabinet construction in common. I have a frontloaded cab
with V30 under my workbench and it sounds great with super
fast bass response. I like the "ooooooomph" :D

Oh yes, sorry to cause confusion :/ this I know haha!

I was meaning about the deep and bass controls function being set higher than the speaker resonance. Is this unique to D-moll or for all Diezels?
 
Yes, the deep control is set over the resonance frequency of the speakers.
Makes sense :D
 
Peter Diezel":3v81rmhg said:
Yes, the deep control is set over the resonance frequency of the speakers.
Makes sense :D

I assumed so, but wanted to clarify :)

Thanks, Papa! My Vh4 always sounds good!!!m :rock:
 
Thanks again for all the reply's. Something crazy happened btw, i have found a very sweet deal regarding an Diezel Herbert, payment is already pending. Because of the following financial blow the d-moll will be sold, 30 day return from Thomann has already passed so unfortunatly it has to go on the 2nd hand market for a lower price.

Can't wait :)
 
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