Old old Member back with a Question about my new Vh4! Cleans

[MesaSean]

Hey folks! I used to be a long member posting non stop back in the late 2000's as I was obsessed with my ESP Guitars and Diezel amps. Back in 2006 I got my first VH4, then a VH4S, then 2 Diezel 4x12 Rear loaded cabs, then I owned a Herbert and others etc. I forgot my old user name. I can't even find my old account as the email associated with it is gone.

Anyway... life comes at ya fast and I stopped playing a while back for a number of years, sold off most of my gear for some adulting, traveling and now am back to guitar playing, collection gear etc.

Just sold off my Mesa Mark V I had for 9 years and got a brand new VH4 this week. I still have one of my old Diezel Rear loaded Speaker cabs that I am using.

Now I recall I could always get an amazing clean tone from the old VH4 I had back in the day (I think it was a 2005-2006 model). I heard they got "re voiced" or changed up a bit back in 2007.

Any advice on your favorite clean settings? Also I am wondering if it's my cab? My cab is old, but has never been gigged. I sold my other Diezel rear loaded cab that I used to gig with. I am wondering if my old cab is the issue with not getting the pristine clean tone I was expecting. Also I was shocked how much a simple Boss Chorus Pedal (super chorus and the Boss CE2W color the clean tone when used with the parallel loop and channel insert.

So again, any advice from you veteran post 2000's VH4 owners can offer to dial in a superb clean tone and any other pedal suggestions for a good chorus that seems to jive with the Vh4?

The other channels I am in heaven with. Channel 3 is amazing for what I love to play.

Thanks so much in advance!

Ignore the settings (Maybe) It was when I first fired it up.

 

[MesaSean]

Current settings for clean.

 

[Philhouse]

G'day Sean,

I'm running my Ch1 settings not too dissimilar to yours. I always found VH4 Ch1 a little tricky to dial in compared to my other amps, but I'm happy where it's settled at now.
I don't have any experience with the Diezel 4x12 you have, but I use a Diezel 2x12 loaded with Scumback 65's as my primary cab for the amp.
I've also liked the way the clean channel sounded with a Marshall TV 4x12 Greenback cab I have, Ch2 sounds nice on it too, but not so much for Ch3 or Ch4.
I've found the Clean channel works well for me with a Compressor pedal (Barber Tone Press) in front, it seems to limit the transients a little to stop the channel from crunching out when hit hard with some volume, some pedals slam the front end of the amp and the VH4 clean channel doesn't really get on well with that I've found. I try to get the channel clean to stay clean with as much headroom as I can and then flavour it with pedals or rack gear in a W/D/W, the other channels I'm happy to push into preamp or power tube distortion, not really on Ch1 though.

If I were having a go for a Hetfield type clean tone I'd prob run my Boss CE-2W and maybe another chorus pedal at a low setting, or a low set rate Flanger (Mooer Elec Lady) in the front end and some verb and a small amount of ducked delay in the loop.
I prefer using two Choruses into each other (plural: chorii?) both set lowish, rather than just one source of modulation, seems less warbly and can feel wider to me. Another way could be to use a Boss Chorus in stereo with the second output to a second clean amp at similar volume, would get closer to the JC120 style, heck I'd also try to run a second chorus in the wet signal amp too just for moar, unless it sounded shite.

Phil

 

[MesaSean]

G'day Sean,

I'm running my Ch1 settings not too dissimilar to yours. I always found VH4 Ch1 a little tricky to dial in compared to my other amps, but I'm happy where it's settled at now.
I don't have any experience with the Diezel 4x12 you have, but I use a Diezel 2x12 loaded with Scumback 65's as my primary cab for the amp.
I've also liked the way the clean channel sounded with a Marshall TV 4x12 Greenback cab I have, Ch2 sounds nice on it too, but not so much for Ch3 or Ch4.
I've found the Clean channel works well for me with a Compressor pedal (Barber Tone Press) in front, it seems to limit the transients a little to stop the channel from crunching out when hit hard with some volume, some pedals slam the front end of the amp and the VH4 clean channel doesn't really get on well with that I've found. I try to get the channel clean to stay clean with as much headroom as I can and then flavour it with pedals or rack gear in a W/D/W, the other channels I'm happy to push into preamp or power tube distortion, not really on Ch1 though.

If I were having a go for a Hetfield type clean tone I'd prob run my Boss CE-2W and maybe another chorus pedal at a low setting, or a low set rate Flanger (Mooer Elec Lady) in the front end and some verb and a small amount of ducked delay in the loop.
I prefer using two Choruses into each other (plural: chorii?) both set lowish, rather than just one source of modulation, seems less warbly and can feel wider to me. Another way could be to use a Boss Chorus in stereo with the second output to a second clean amp at similar volume, would get closer to the JC120 style, heck I'd also try to run a second chorus in the wet signal amp too just for moar, unless it sounded shite.

Phil

Hey thanks for the reply!

Yeah I now got a decent clean tone but wow do pedals color the tone for sure. I tried the CE-2W and actually didn't like it. I bought it recently to replace my Boss Super Chorus I had for ages, but it turns out the Boss Super Chorus sounds better than the CE-2W (for my situation for some reason)

I run the old Super chorus through the Channel Insert and while it does sound better in front of the amp; I just got a Ground Control Pro and love having it in the channel insert. I found some major volume AND tone coloring using the Parallel FX loop so I am sticking with the channel insert for now.

I ordered the MXR Analog Chorus which should be here today to test out.

Per your point, being a Hetfield nut I for sure can tell he used to add a very slight Flanger effect on top of the JC120H head for cleans. But sadly Metallica stopped using live amps on stage and switch to those Fractal Audio systems for all their shows. I know many love those things but I really dislike their live tone now since they went with the modelers.

Thanks again and I'll keep ya posted!

 

[Philhouse]

All good!

Reading my post again I should have added in, I find the Clean channel doesn't have a lot of headroom compared to other amps, so its a small window between getting the volume needed from the channel to balance out your heavy sound, and not hitting it hard in the front lest it starts distorting. I'm sure you've already found this, but it took me a while to gel with it. It was a bit difference to use than my IIC+ which has a glorious and loud clean tone.

I've not tried the MXR Analog Chorus, keen to see how it works for you. The Boss CE-1 chorus I have is the grandaddy of all them for me and sounds fantastic for that tone, as to be expected, but it comes with its own practicality issues. The CE-2W in CE-1 mode seems to work pretty close for me, but you gotta go with what works for you hey.

Yeah, I'm thinking there is some very subtle flanger in his clean tone. I think it was only by adding in extra modulation pedals in a moment of boredom onto that base JC type tone that it felt like it clicked in my head and then I could go back and listen to hear it in his tone, esp his live clean tones.
I was prob mucking around with Andy Summers type sounds with a Elec Mistress Flanger into a JC210 sound and heard some Hetfield clean in what I'd ended up with.
I've also found I can get closer to his clean studio tones when I use my Telecaster. I know he had one in the Year and a Half videos for the Black album, but playing the earlier albums clean parts with a tele sounds really to my ear, more clear bell like tones rather than the EMG more compressed sound. Maybe I'm just on crack, but I'd be interested to hear if you get the same result, if by chance you have a tele style guitar to try?

Phil.

 

[MesaSean]

All good!

Reading my post again I should have added in, I find the Clean channel doesn't have a lot of headroom compared to other amps, so its a small window between getting the volume needed from the channel to balance out your heavy sound, and not hitting it hard in the front lest it starts distorting. I'm sure you've already found this, but it took me a while to gel with it. It was a bit difference to use than my IIC+ which has a glorious and loud clean tone.

I've not tried the MXR Analog Chorus, keen to see how it works for you. The Boss CE-1 chorus I have is the grandaddy of all them for me and sounds fantastic for that tone, as to be expected, but it comes with its own practicality issues. The CE-2W in CE-1 mode seems to work pretty close for me, but you gotta go with what works for you hey.

Yeah, I'm thinking there is some very subtle flanger in his clean tone. I think it was only by adding in extra modulation pedals in a moment of boredom onto that base JC type tone that it felt like it clicked in my head and then I could go back and listen to hear it in his tone, esp his live clean tones.
I was prob mucking around with Andy Summers type sounds with a Elec Mistress Flanger into a JC210 sound and heard some Hetfield clean in what I'd ended up with.
I've also found I can get closer to his clean studio tones when I use my Telecaster. I know he had one in the Year and a Half videos for the Black album, but playing the earlier albums clean parts with a tele sounds really to my ear, more clear bell like tones rather than the EMG more compressed sound. Maybe I'm just on crack, but I'd be interested to hear if you get the same result, if by chance you have a tele style guitar to try?

Phil.

Thanks again Phil. I do notice you have a bit of gain in your clean tone, where as I have mine low and volume cranked or higher, thinking the gain would cause break up.

The CE-2W was an excellent pedal. Especially in the front of the amp. But I found in the channel inserts (and Parallel loop) it really colored the tone and messed with the volume. The Super chorus for me seems to work a lil better as it has a mix and eq knob on it.

Before this new VH4 (I used to have a VH4 and VH4S back in 2005-2006) recently I had Mark V that had an insane clean tone. But sadly I did not enjoy channel 2, and the amp was a little two fiddly, if that makes any sense. I like how simple the Vh4 is and I love the channel inserts/Midi controls.

I don't have any Tele's. Just ESP Custom shop MXII-CTM's I had made back in the 2000's when dealers would still ship from Japan to the USA, an MX250, Truckster, and an ESP Edwards Les Paul custom. All with the EMG 60/81 combo but the Truckster has the Het Set in it. (it came with the hetset, but I kind of prefer the 60/81 over the het set)

 

[rickenbacker198]

I love the cleans on the VH4, very unique.
Much prefer the range of adjustments on ch1 of the VH4 vs Herbert’s ch1 which is simply clean with no gain control.
To summarize in adjectives,
They are not really warm and woody more like cutting, deep, defined, jangling and percussive.
Arpeggios work beautiful.
Single coil , low gain pickups really help it stay clean.
Position 2 on a strat is my favourite here.
My settings differ a bit from both of you, but still going the same way.
Volume 3 o’clock, gain under 10 o’clock
Highs and Lows around 2 o’clock
Mids around 10 o’clock

I like what the V30 brings with cleans even a bit more than for high gain.

Tubes also make a huge difference here.
KT77 is a bit linear sounding to me , I prefer the JJ 6L6

 

[MesaSean]

I love the cleans on the VH4, very unique.
Much prefer the range of adjustments on ch1 of the VH4 vs Herbert’s ch1 which is simply clean with no gain control.
To summarize in adjectives,
They are not really warm and woody more like cutting, deep, defined, jangling and percussive.
Arpeggios work beautiful.
Single coil , low gain pickups really help it stay clean.
Position 2 on a strat is my favourite here.
My settings differ a bit from both of you, but still going the same way.
Volume 3 o’clock, gain under 10 o’clock
Highs and Lows around 2 o’clock
Mids around 10 o’clock

I like what the V30 brings with cleans even a bit more than for high gain.

Tubes also make a huge difference here.
KT77 is a bit linear sounding to me , I prefer the JJ 6L6

Yeah I can imagine with that type of guitar and pick up configuration it must sound amazing. I just never vibe with single coils or strats, so I use ESP custom Explorers that come with EMG's. I could always through and EMG 89 and split it, but I am not doing that to all my guitars. The settings above from Phil are working a little nicer, but I do notice pedals in the channel insert like Chorus etc really color the tone and adds some unwanted tones.

 

[Philhouse]

Hey again Sean,

You inspired me to go have a play with the cleans today. I found these settings sounding quite nice.

- >

-> Barber Tone Press - > Ch1 -> some mild delay and reverb in Wet amps.

 

[MesaSean]

Hey again Sean,

You inspired me to go have a play with the cleans today. I found these settings sounding quite nice.

- >

-> Barber Tone Press - > Ch1 -> some mild delay and reverb in Wet amps.

Nice how is it sounding?

I got the MXR Analog Chorus and I am loving it so far! A lot better than the Super Chorus I had a bit more options in terms of tonal changes.

I got a Ground Control Pro again as well and wow did I miss having one of those. Super handy! (Ignore the super chorus on top) The Dr. Z Air Brake Top so far has been amazing. Reduces volumes really well without much tone loss. The bedroom knob as amazing. I can get rich tone but at the volume of a TV set late at night.

Here is the MXR I am using:

 

[xzyryabx]

Don't have anything if substance to add to your question, but were you recently selling an Edwards lp? That mx stood out to me from the listing.

 

[MesaSean]

Don't have anything if substance to add to your question, but were you recently selling an Edwards lp? That mx stood out to me from the listing.

Yeah the Edwards LP with EMG's is up for sale still. If no one buys it, I'll just keep it as it sounds and plays amazing. I am not about to spend 4,000 on a Gibson Les Paul Custom just to have EMG's put in it. It would defeat the purpose as they have nice pups but I don't get along with passives for the most part.