OT - Would two 50W amps be as loud as a 100W?

[Resonant Alien]

Just wondering if I split my guitar signal and run it to two 50W amps simultaneously, would it be as loud as running a single 100W amp? Somehow, I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

 

[jlbaxe]

scroll down it was sorta discussed but with 2 100 watt in stereo.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=61662

 

[Audioholic]

in reality, a 100 watt head is about 3 db louder then an amp running 50 watts in a perfect world, so really, its not to much the wattage that is pertaining to volume, but basically every time you double your power, you should gain about 3 db I believe.

 

[Resonant Alien]

scroll down it was sorta discussed but with 2 100 watt in stereo.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=61662

Thanks for that link - I saw that thread, but never bothered to read it - afraid it would cause too much GAS.

So, more to that discussion....I understand that a 100W amp is not twice as loud as a 50W amp - my understanding is that it is about 3dB louder, I think.

I guess my question could be better phrased more like; If I run two 50W amps simultaneously, would that be at least 3dB louder than running one 50W amp?? This would effectively say it could be comparable to a single 100W amp, right?

I'm mainly asking a generic question to answer a specific one...I am contemplating getting back into the modular side of the family - specifically the M4/E2 side of the family, so I'm looking at power amps. Of course there is the RT2/50, which functionally and maybe tonally would be the best option - but I would ideally like to build as light of a rig as possible - and from your response to my other thread - the RT2/50 would be pretty heavy - that doesn't take it out of the equation, but it's definitely a consideration.

From a space/weight perspective, the Boogie 20/20 looks nice on paper - sounds like at least a few people have paired it with the modular stuff too. But, I am afraid that 20W would not be loud enough. But, I was wondering if I run two speaker cabinets, and run each side of the 20/20 to one cabinet, I would essentially be running 2 20W amps simultaneously - so, would it be true to say that could be comparable in volume to a single 40W amp??

Thanks,
Rick

 

[aeroic]

in reality, a 100 watt head is about 3 db louder then an amp running 50 watts in a perfect world, so really, its not to much the wattage that is pertaining to volume, but basically every time you double your power, you should gain about 3 db I believe.

This is not correct. Every time you 10x's the wattage you get 3dB louder, and that is in effect making it twice as loud.

So 10W amp -> 100W amp is twice as loud. 50W -> 100W amp is NOT twice as loud. To get twice as much volume of a 50W amp, you would have to move to a 500W amp.

Eric

 

[jlbaxe]

I think you will get a fuller sound making it appear loader. If you are playing clubs or with a band you could mic your rig and run it through the board. Does that help?

 

[aeroic]

scroll down it was sorta discussed but with 2 100 watt in stereo.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=61662

Thanks for that link - I saw that thread, but never bothered to read it - afraid it would cause too much GAS.

So, more to that discussion....I understand that a 100W amp is not twice as loud as a 50W amp - my understanding is that it is about 3dB louder, I think.

I guess my question could be better phrased more like; If I run two 50W amps simultaneously, would that be at least 3dB louder than running one 50W amp?? This would effectively say it could be comparable to a single 100W amp, right?

I'm mainly asking a generic question to answer a specific one...I am contemplating getting back into the modular side of the family - specifically the M4/E2 side of the family, so I'm looking at power amps. Of course there is the RT2/50, which functionally and maybe tonally would be the best option - but I would ideally like to build as light of a rig as possible - and from your response to my other thread - the RT2/50 would be pretty heavy - that doesn't take it out of the equation, but it's definitely a consideration.

From a space/weight perspective, the Boogie 20/20 looks nice on paper - sounds like at least a few people have paired it with the modular stuff too. But, I am afraid that 20W would not be loud enough. But, I was wondering if I run two speaker cabinets, and run each side of the 20/20 to one cabinet, I would essentially be running 2 20W amps simultaneously - so, would it be true to say that could be comparable in volume to a single 40W amp??

Thanks,
Rick

Yes this is a fair comparison. 2 20W power sections will equal the volume of a 40W amp. But do remember that EL84s react much differently and sound sonically different than a EL34, 6L6, 6550, KT88, etc. Headroom will be much lower on a 20W EL84 power section...vs a 6550 power section...etc. If weight is an issue, get a 2U rack for just the power amp. I have a 2U rack that I could sell you as a package deal w/ my RT2/50

Eric

 

[Resonant Alien]

Yes this is a fair comparison. 2 20W power sections will equal the volume of a 40W amp. But do remember that EL84s react much differently and sound sonically different than a EL34, 6L6, 6550, KT88, etc. Headroom will be much lower on a 20W EL84 power section...vs a 6550 power section...etc. If weight is an issue, get a 2U rack for just the power amp. I have a 2U rack that I could sell you as a package deal w/ my RT2/50

Eric

Thanks Eric - and yeah, the EL84s would not be my first choice for tone - for OD and high gain, they might do, but for crunch and clean, I'm not sure they would cut it.

I just started this latest round of GAS over the weekend while snowed in here in NC, so I am still going through all of my options..... The RT2/50 is so far at the top of the list - the weight is kind of scary, but as pointed out, I could go with two separate portable racks instead of one.

RA

 

[Audioholic]

in reality, a 100 watt head is about 3 db louder then an amp running 50 watts in a perfect world, so really, its not to much the wattage that is pertaining to volume, but basically every time you double your power, you should gain about 3 db I believe.

This is not correct. Every time you 10x's the wattage you get 3dB louder, and that is in effect making it twice as loud.

So 10W amp -> 100W amp is twice as loud. 50W -> 100W amp is NOT twice as loud. To get twice as much volume of a 50W amp, you would have to move to a 500W amp.

Eric

no I don't think you are correct. For starters, gaining 3db is NOT twice as loud unless you start at 3 db. everytime you double the power, you do gain 3db and thats it. Google it, I dare you


So if you are pushing about 60 db, double the power, you then gain an additinal 3db, now pushing 63 db, hardly doubling. This is why it takes a crap ton of power and speakers to drive massive DB ratings at concerts.


The four points

Decibel values of 10, 20, 30... represent power ratios of 10, 100, 1000...
Every time you double your power output, the gain increased by another 3 dB.
Double your power output from 10 watts to 20, and you've gained 3 dB.
Double it again to 40, and you've gained another 3 dB, or 6 dB total.
On most rigs, one S-unit represents a 6 dB gain, or four times the power output.
When you buy that 1000 watt linear amplifier, you are increasing your 100 watt output by a factor of 10, or 10 dB. At the other end, that will improve your signal by less than 2 s-units.
Decibel values less than ten are greater than their corresponding power factors. Decibel values greater than ten are smaller than their corresponding power factors - sometimes much smaller.
For example, 3 dB represents only twice the power, but 30 dB represents 1000 times the power.


What you get with running 2 rigs is extra coverage.

 

[hunter]

If you reverse the phase on one of them you might end up with NO sound

 

[aeroic]

in reality, a 100 watt head is about 3 db louder then an amp running 50 watts in a perfect world, so really, its not to much the wattage that is pertaining to volume, but basically every time you double your power, you should gain about 3 db I believe.

This is not correct. Every time you 10x's the wattage you get 3dB louder, and that is in effect making it twice as loud.

So 10W amp -> 100W amp is twice as loud. 50W -> 100W amp is NOT twice as loud. To get twice as much volume of a 50W amp, you would have to move to a 500W amp.

Eric

no I don't think you are correct. For starters, gaining 3db is NOT twice as loud unless you start at 3 db. everytime you double the power, you do gain 3db and thats it. Google it, I dare you


So if you are pushing about 60 db, double the power, you then gain an additinal 3db, now pushing 63 db, hardly doubling. This is why it takes a crap ton of power and speakers to drive massive DB ratings at concerts.


The four points

Decibel values of 10, 20, 30... represent power ratios of 10, 100, 1000...
Every time you double your power output, the gain increased by another 3 dB.
Double your power output from 10 watts to 20, and you've gained 3 dB.
Double it again to 40, and you've gained another 3 dB, or 6 dB total.
On most rigs, one S-unit represents a 6 dB gain, or four times the power output.
When you buy that 1000 watt linear amplifier, you are increasing your 100 watt output by a factor of 10, or 10 dB. At the other end, that will improve your signal by less than 2 s-units.
Decibel values less than ten are greater than their corresponding power factors. Decibel values greater than ten are smaller than their corresponding power factors - sometimes much smaller.
For example, 3 dB represents only twice the power, but 30 dB represents 1000 times the power.


What you get with running 2 rigs is extra coverage.

Yep...you are right...i was a bit confused. The 10-100w argument was correct...but the +3db was not right...you are correct. I always get the +3 and +10 portion mixed up from time to time.

Double the volume...is 10x's the power....to add +3 db...you double the power.

Thanks man!

 

[muudrock]

Best way to increase volume......Add more speakers...