Over-sized closed-back 2x12 has too much low-end. Why?

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Has anyone else had an issue with excessive low-end in an oversized 2x12 closed-back cabinet? I have a 2x12 cabinet that's way too deep sounding, and it "muddies" the notes quite badly. Would converting it to a semi-open back cure the problem?

I have a THD 2x12 SOB that sounds fine. My 412 closed-back cabinet sounds fine also. Weird! :confused:
 
isolate the left and right speakers from one another and it will solve it - tighten it up.
 
Thanks! Would opening up the back of the cab fix it also?
 
fucduperinchit":3hc295yt said:
Thanks! Would opening up the back of the cab fix it also?

not without removing all of the low end all together, changing design characteristics of the speaker at volume, also changing the projection of the cabinet. open cabs are for blues players and 1950's covers :D
 
Having part of the back removed does not make you lose any lowend. I run my OS 2x12 with the back 1/3 open and it solved the problem you are having. It makes the lowend sound clearer and more full. There seems to be this bogus belief that if your 2x12 isn't fully sealed then you lose your lowend and your amp won't sound tight.
I had the same problem, muddy, congested and just ugly sounding. Removed partial back insert and the cab just opened up. Tight, clear and thunderous room filling low end.
 
D-Rock":1g9vq5x6 said:
Having part of the back removed does not make you lose any lowend. I run my OS 2x12 with the back 1/3 open and it solved the problem you are having. It makes the lowend sound clearer and more full. There seems to be this bogus belief that if your 2x12 isn't fully sealed then you lose your lowend and your amp won't sound tight.
I had the same problem, muddy, congested and just ugly sounding. Removed partial back insert and the cab just opened up. Tight, clear and thunderous room filling low end.

he did not say 1/3 open, he said open all together. lets make this very clear if you're going to make comparisons :thumbsup:

i also said it will change the projection of the cabinet - quoted by you saying "room filling" - if the user lives in an appartment and does not want it to be openly projected then the result will be an unwanted side effect.
 
glpg80":156wdgfo said:
D-Rock":156wdgfo said:
Having part of the back removed does not make you lose any lowend. I run my OS 2x12 with the back 1/3 open and it solved the problem you are having. It makes the lowend sound clearer and more full. There seems to be this bogus belief that if your 2x12 isn't fully sealed then you lose your lowend and your amp won't sound tight.
I had the same problem, muddy, congested and just ugly sounding. Removed partial back insert and the cab just opened up. Tight, clear and thunderous room filling low end.

he did not say 1/3 open, he said open all together. lets make this very clear if you're going to make comparisons :thumbsup:

i also said it will change the projection of the cabinet - quoted by you saying "room filling" - if the user lives in an appartment and does not want it to be openly projected then the result will be an unwanted side effect.
Yes, but I read it as he wants to "convert it to a semi-open back". Then asked if "opening it up" would solve his problem. I think you then interpreted that as totally removing the back. But I don't believe that was his intention.
But you're right in that totally removing the back with lose lowend, and partially removing the back with disperse the lowend. But it will also clear up the lowend and actually make the sound coming from cab sound bigger. In the end, it makes notes and chords clearer and eliminates the mud from so much lowend bouncing around in a small confined space.
Dispersion is an important factor as you mentioned though. Does the OP want a straight and directional sound, or a wide, full sound?
 
D-Rock":8bjxa983 said:
glpg80":8bjxa983 said:
D-Rock":8bjxa983 said:
Having part of the back removed does not make you lose any lowend. I run my OS 2x12 with the back 1/3 open and it solved the problem you are having. It makes the lowend sound clearer and more full. There seems to be this bogus belief that if your 2x12 isn't fully sealed then you lose your lowend and your amp won't sound tight.
I had the same problem, muddy, congested and just ugly sounding. Removed partial back insert and the cab just opened up. Tight, clear and thunderous room filling low end.

he did not say 1/3 open, he said open all together. lets make this very clear if you're going to make comparisons :thumbsup:

i also said it will change the projection of the cabinet - quoted by you saying "room filling" - if the user lives in an appartment and does not want it to be openly projected then the result will be an unwanted side effect.
Yes, but I read it as he wants to "convert it to a semi-open back". Then asked if "opening it up" would solve his problem. I think you then interpreted that as totally removing the back. But I don't believe that was his intention.
But you're right in that totally removing the back with lose lowend, and partially removing the back with disperse the lowend. But it will also clear up the lowend and actually make the sound coming from cab sound bigger. In the end, it makes notes and chords clearer and eliminates the mud from so much lowend bouncing around in a small confined space.
Dispersion is an important factor as you mentioned though. Does the OP want a straight and directional sound, or a wide, full sound?
Yes, I meant sob. This is the first closed-back 2x12 I've ever owned. I will try cutting the center section out of the back panel tomorrow. By what you guys are saying, it sounds like the closed-back design is the problem. I was going to try stuffing pillows in the back to take-up some of the room in the cabinet... I think opening it up a bit will give me more sound dispersal. Is this correct?
 
That is why the oversized 212 was produced, to give some extra bottom end and to be advertised as sounding like a 412. Not that any 212 will touch a 412, but that was the carrot anyway.
 
It actually has more low-end than my 4x12 - but it's a nasty sounding low-end. :aww: It's like that no matter what speakers are in it. I will start messing with it tomorrow.
 
The reason why any oversized cab has too much bass, or more bass than usual is because it is oversized, which will give it more bass. That is what it is meant to do.
 
The extra space in the cab is giving the suspension of the speakers less pressure to move, isolating each speaker would stop this but I have an OS 2x12 with v30s and do not have this problem.

Kind of doing what the RK 4x12 does, has a board to seperate the two halves of the cab.
 
I don't mind low-end at all, but it needs to be a low-end that lends itself properly to the mix. I love my 4x12, but this 2x12 just isn't getting the job done. The rear panel has a date with my DeWalt saber saw tomorrow morning! :lol: :LOL:
 
fucduperinchit":1yvdz13q said:
I don't mind low-end at all, but it needs to be a low-end that lends itself properly to the mix. I love my 4x12, but this 2x12 just isn't getting the job done. The rear panel has a date with my DeWalt saber saw tomorrow morning! :lol: :LOL:

Is the back that's on there now MDF?
 
JakeAC5253":1naaw2ux said:
fucduperinchit":1naaw2ux said:
I don't mind low-end at all, but it needs to be a low-end that lends itself properly to the mix. I love my 4x12, but this 2x12 just isn't getting the job done. The rear panel has a date with my DeWalt saber saw tomorrow morning! :lol: :LOL:

Is the back that's on there now MDF?
What does MDF stand for?
 
fucduperinchit":fp9n7d55 said:
JakeAC5253":fp9n7d55 said:
fucduperinchit":fp9n7d55 said:
I don't mind low-end at all, but it needs to be a low-end that lends itself properly to the mix. I love my 4x12, but this 2x12 just isn't getting the job done. The rear panel has a date with my DeWalt saber saw tomorrow morning! :lol: :LOL:

Is the back that's on there now MDF?
What does MDF stand for?

MDF stands for medium density fibreboard, a relatively porous cheap wood material. Reason I ask is that if your back board is a denser wood than MDF, it could exhibit those characteristics of a spongy response and dulled sound. If not, then it's because of something else. If your backboard is not MDF though, replacing the back board with a more porous wood like MDF, rather than destroying the one you have, may help to let the cab breathe a bit more without turning your cabinet into a science project.
 
Any air escaping from the back panel?

It has to be 100% solid without air escaping or it will get farty.
 
Digital Jams":2zw3q7z5 said:
Any air escaping from the back panel?

It has to be 100% solid without air escaping or it will get farty.
Not at all. It's really a tight fit.
 
 
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