Passive vs. Reactive Attenuators

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Kapo_Polenton

Kapo_Polenton

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So I was A/B'ing extensively between my Torpedo Reload ( 1st generation) and my JCM800 on it's own and while it sounds "good", there is no doubt at all as to what that class D does to the tone of the amp. Might be subtle to some but the amp on it's own is bigger sounding, beefier, but also better highs. One could argue that the advantage of the attentuator is getting the master up past 7 which beats the amp on let's say 2. Still though, the Reload and other reactive loads are definitely imparting their tone. With a passive attenuator like a hotplate ( had one years ago and thought it was good shaving off a few db), is the eq of the amp affected like it is going through a class D power amp? I know the hotplate sucked as you brought it down to lower levels.

I think I might be done with attenuators personally. Or maybe the Fryette with tubes is the only answer. I think I can get my combo up to 7 on the master and throw it in the closet and leave it mic'd up so that's something i am considering as well.
 
if the reload’s load is anything like the captor (i would guess so) then it is not much like a real speaker load. More like a speaker load than a hotplate and other resistive attenuators, but still not the same impedence curve as a speaker cab. That’s where the change in sound happens.

In my opinion the best way to do this would be a quality reactive load that actually does mimic the impedence curve of a speaker cab (the Suhr, fractal, and Fryette loads do this, probably a few others too) and a quality flat response power amp. The Fryette already has the power amp built in.

The boss TAE is a similar approach to the fryette but from the impedence plots I’ve seen they sacrificed the authenticity of the impedance curves for more switchable options. Depending on the amp and how it’s set up this may or may not be apparent in how it sounds. Amps with less negative feedback or where depth/presence is set high will be more sensitive to the load used.
 
IMO the best sounding way to attenuate is a reactive load with impedance similar to a cabinet - also IMO the Fryette is the best at this, as far as combinations and options without sacrificing the sound of the amp.

I'm not a huge fan of passive attenuators in general unless you're just barely attenuating at all - they change the sound far too much. To the point where the master volume is probably a better solution, in most cases.
 
mnemonic said:
if the reload’s load is anything like the captor (i would guess so) then it is not much like a real speaker load. More like a speaker load than a hotplate and other resistive attenuators, but still not the same impedence curve as a speaker cab. That’s where the change in sound happens.

In my opinion the best way to do this would be a quality reactive load that actually does mimic the impedence curve of a speaker cab (the Suhr, fractal, and Fryette loads do this, probably a few others too) and a quality flat response power amp. The Fryette already has the power amp built in.

The boss TAE is a similar approach to the fryette but from the impedence plots I’ve seen they sacrificed the authenticity of the impedance curves for more switchable options. Depending on the amp and how it’s set up this may or may not be apparent in how it sounds. Amps with less negative feedback or where depth/presence is set high will be more sensitive to the load used.
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Yes the Reload is similar to the Captor though def the better of the Captor, Captor X, and Studio. The Reload has the most open load for when you want to use IR's but you hear it when attenuating.

I've heard both good AND bad things about the Fryette oddly enough. Seems people really like it or feel like it misses the mark. The new Reload II is supposed to be based off the impedence curve of Celestion speakeers in a combo and 4x12 so maybe that is a better option but again, do I want to spend that cash only to feel like I should have just tented around the cab in a closet and called it a day. Running a Marshall on 7 is still bringing the goods if it doesn't rattle the walls too much.
 
Funny, I was doing the same thing tonight. I normally use different amps through a Fractal Reactive Loadbox, through stereo effects, and then reamp through a Matrix SS powwramp into cabs. Tonight I decided to unhook all the reamping stuff, and it was sounding better. The lows punched better and were more bouncy, and the highs were less fizzy. It lost a sterilness I have kind of gotten used to. I mostly do all this to get stereo effects, not really for volume. I ended up running an amp into another amp so I could still get stereo, and it was sounding better than it has in a while.

I gotta think about what I want to do to change this. I dont know if a tube poweramp for reamping would do, or if I should just quit using the reactive loadbox and use 2 heads.
 
DanTravis62 said:
IMO the best sounding way to attenuate is a reactive load with impedance similar to a cabinet - also IMO the Fryette is the best at this, as far as combinations and options without sacrificing the sound of the amp.

I'm not a huge fan of passive attenuators in general unless you're just barely attenuating at all - they change the sound far too much. To the point where the master volume is probably a better solution, in most cases.
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💯

The Fryette unit is in a league of it's own IMO. With the added features, in addition to the tube poweramp, it's one of the best sounding units I've tried. I've gone through a bunch of the non reactive units over the years. Also some of the earlier reactive units. I have not tried the Ox or new Torpedo units for comparison, but I'm happy enough I have no desire.
 
Erock said:
The Fryette unit is in a league of it's own IMO.
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No it is not. No onboard reverb, delay, eq, compression...no MIDI, no amp control...the TAE does everything the Fryette does and much more. And no one on the planet could ever discern one from the other in a blind test.
 
tallcoolone said:
No it is not. No onboard reverb, delay, eq, compression...no MIDI, no amp control...the TAE does everything the Fryette does and much more. And no one on the planet could ever discern one from the other in a blind test.
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ok man, I'm just talking about ones I've tried, and mainly transparency. It's a great sounding unit IMO. It's just my opinion brother. :LOL:
 
Erock said:
ok man, I'm just talking about ones I've tried, and mainly transparency. It's a great sounding unit IMO. It's just my opinion brother. :LOL:
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Yeah but you said it's "in a league of it's own". Tough to have such a strong opinion on something you have no experience with.

Fryette tends to attract a cult like following on geek boards. Unwarranted I believe. The Power Station is 8 year old tech and brings nothing new to the table.
 
tallcoolone said:
Yeah but you said it's "in a league of it's own". Tough to have such a strong opinion on something you have no experience with.

Fryette tends to attract a cult like following on geek boards. Unwarranted I believe. The Power Station is 8 year old tech and brings nothing new to the table.
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come on man, I prefaced it with the fact I hadn't tried the new Torpedo units. I have a PS100, and it kicks ass. You can kick rocks, I don't care what you think honestly.
 
Erock said:
come one man, I prefaced it with the fact I hadn't tried the new Torpedo units. I have a PS100, and it kicks ass. You can kick rocks, I don't care what you think honestly.
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Sounds like you haven't tried much. In which case I suppose the Fryette is indeed in a "league of it's own" for you.
 
tallcoolone said:
Sounds like you haven't tried much. In which case I suppose the Fryette is indeed in a "league of it's own" for you.
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Ok you win. The Torpedo team should be happy with your marketing effort. I hope it helps, their older units were no comparison.
 
Erock said:
Ok you win. The Torpedo team should be happy with your marketing effort. I hope it helps, their older units were no comparison.
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The TAE isn't a Two Notes product, it's Boss/Roland. I did own the Torpedo back in 2018 I think. Same tech as the PS, just not with tubes which is my preference as tubes add color which is not what I want. The TAE does so much more.
 
tallcoolone said:
The TAE isn't a Two Notes product, it's Boss/Roland. I did own the Torpedo back in 2018 I think. Same tech as the PS, just not with tubes which is my preference as tubes add color which is not what I want. The TAE does so much more.
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congrats, you've earned your paycheck!
 
tallcoolone said:
Well that's dumb. But you be you
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you're a lousy salesman. You could have just said what it did that was better, but you chose to go after me, for agreeing with someone else's opinion?

edit: oh snap, you really are a salesman aren't you! Sorry man! :LOL:
 
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stephen sawall said:
Hot Plate is reactive.
It's all right here.

https://www.tumblr.com/tubeampguru
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He can call it what he wants, it still doesn’t mimic the impedence curve of an amp. Here is my 16 ohm hotplate at every setting, all switches ‘on’

THD hotplate 16R with 16R cab, 0 to load sweep (Bright, Deep on).jpeg


The only one that looks like a speaker cab is the red line which is no attenuation.
 
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