Peter, Question about attenuators

[herbie]

Peter and messageboard gang

how do feel about the use of power attenuators ex.(THD Hot Plate) with the Diezel amp???

1) I don't like to play really loud live anymore. I prefer a much lower volume overall live. My Herbert sounds fantastic when I turn it up.
2) yes the master volume works fine in that situation. but i am using mostly the preamp dist. when I play at lower volumes right??
3) I want to be able to turn the amp volume up and utilize more power tube saturation without having to be loud. I have noticed more and more the use of attenuators lately. Especially now that more people are trying to get the Brown sound without being loud. Companies like Blankenship amp are selling the Variplex amp with an attenuator as part of the amp purchase. Anyway I am just doing research at this point.

4) will using an attenuator affect the warranty? will it hurt tubes or the transformer??

Thanks guys!!!! leaseohplease: leaseohplease: leaseohplease: leaseohplease:

 

[duesentrieb]

4) if you use the correct impedances: no (get one which fits your cab's impedance (!))
3) you are playing a Herbert, right? I don't think its a good idea to try to get it into power tube saturation. Or you need to pull tubes, two pairs, which means you have to set the amp to 4 Ohm with a 16 Ohm cab. And you would need a 16 Ohm Hotplate (or whatever) too
2) Herbert works linear with its heavily oversized powersection. All Diezels (maybe except Einstein 50 or Schmidt) are preamp-sounds with "character" added from the heavy power sections with its presence/deep.
1) see 2-4

Just my personal opinion of course.

 

[scottph]

I used a THD Hotplate for a while with my Herbert. It worked fine, but I prefer the sound of the amp straight into the cab at low volumes, since the Herbert get's it's distortion mainly thru the pre-amp section.

 

[LaXu]

I have tried most volume reduction methods on the market. Attenuators, Power Scaling, running a dummy load with line-out into a separate poweramp and that into a cab...

I think the master volume on my Einstein is so good that I don't need any of the methods mentioned above. I don't feel that I'm really missing anything because I'm not cranking the Einstein.

 

[Sixstring]

On the subject of power attenators their are a few other options other then THD. Their is also Dr. Z Air Brake that is not load specific and I here they sound real good for around $299.00 U.S.. You also have Bad Cat comming out with a new unit called the Leash and has selectiable loads 4,8,16 and has two speaker outs $349.00 U.S. But I would think the way that Peter has designed that head your going to be using more preamp than poweramp distortion not to mention most power attenators are only good for 100 Watts anyway. And at 160 watts you may have a potential risk using one on a Herbie.

 

[herbie]

Yeah thanks guys, all your thoughts have been very helpful.

For the first time after playing for 20 years the Diezel tone is what i have been looking for. I probably will not mess with an attenuator then.. I don't want to have to pull tubes or make any special adjustments to try and get more out of something that is very pleasing to my ears already. By the way I must say that the greatest (enhacement) to an already great tone to the Herbie for me has been the addition of my 1969 EP2 Echoplex!!!!!
truly amazing. having that bit of addtional tube preamp and the analog tape is great!!!
So, unless I can hear of some positive examples with other using an attenuator with their diezels i won't bother.

I wanted to clarify that an Echoplex is not for everyone and that my Herbert sounds great without an echoplex too.

none the less.................in the spirit of experimentation, and my curiosity and addiction to TONE, i may take a shot at trying one...hey just for the heck of it RIGHT!?????? :rock2: :drunk: :bong:

 

[herbie]

Now the question is which one

Here is the idea.

1) turn down the gains
2) turn up the volume
3) use attenuator to regulate overall volume

SEE ITS EASY!!!!! :moon: :moon: :moon: :moon: :moon:

 

[Sixstring]

Well if your going to do it then I would have to say Dr. Z Air Brake ... That way if your don't like it it easer to sell or if you keep it it will work on another amp/cab combo.

 

[herbie]

I just got home from band practice and it was the first time i practiced with the Echoplex and it sounded great. I did also add an EQ pedal in the loop and that made a difference too (check out Amptone.com its a crazy website that goes crazy about guitar tone and goes into detail about alot of things, i found it a very intersting and also confusing at times place.One can get lost easy there so watch out.).. My band though will never turn down to much so thats why i think The Dr. Dr.Z might do the trick. with the 2 other bands i play in the band volume is alot lower. so we shall see.

So, Sixstring, you got me thinking about the Bad cat too.
hmmmmmmm tough call,l also I know Herbie is 180 watts or so but I doubt that i will "dime" Herbie. I wonder what EVH would do!!!! :rofl: :deadhorse:

 

[herbie]

Oh

So Scottph tell me what it sounded like with the hotplate?
Did you turn up the volumes and turn down the gains?/

Explain if you want the difference. i would be very interested :barf:

 

[Peter Diezel]

:|::QBB:

Peter and messageboard gang

how do feel about the use of power attenuators ex.(THD Hot Plate) with the Diezel amp???

1) I don't like to play really loud live anymore. I prefer a much lower volume overall live. My Herbert sounds fantastic when I turn it up.
2) yes the master volume works fine in that situation. but i am using mostly the preamp dist. when I play at lower volumes right??
3) I want to be able to turn the amp volume up and utilize more power tube saturation without having to be loud. I have noticed more and more the use of attenuators lately. Especially now that more people are trying to get the Brown sound without being loud. Companies like Blankenship amp are selling the Variplex amp with an attenuator as part of the amp purchase. Anyway I am just doing research at this point.

4) will using an attenuator affect the warranty? will it hurt tubes or the transformer??

Thanks guys!!!! leaseohplease: leaseohplease: leaseohplease: leaseohplease:

I´m not big fan of power attenuators

 

[Sixstring]

:|::QBB:

I just got home from band practice and it was the first time i practiced with the Echoplex and it sounded great. I did also add an EQ pedal in the loop and that made a difference too (check out Amptone.com its a crazy website that goes crazy about guitar tone and goes into detail about alot of things, i found it a very intersting and also confusing at times place.One can get lost easy there so watch out.).. My band though will never turn down to much so thats why i think The Dr. Dr.Z might do the trick. with the 2 other bands i play in the band volume is alot lower. so we shall see.

So, Sixstring, you got me thinking about the Bad cat too.
hmmmmmmm tough call,l also I know Herbie is 180 watts or so but I doubt that i will "dime" Herbie. I wonder what EVH would do!!!! :rofl: :deadhorse:

I think Ed would probably use a 5150 but the Ed of old would just use a old Marshall with all the B.S. that he had to do to get the tone we all know and love and I'm sure you read that thread on amptone.com as well ... . But even then it's a crap shoot with old Marshall amps. I hear hand wound trans formers are not very consistent so you could line up 10 vintage Marshalls and they would all soud a little different. The Bad cat Attenator is a nice pice and the sound bites on their web cite are good from what I can tell. I used to have a Bad Cat Hot cat 30 head and have talked to James a few times and been to his shop.
Your right about never diming the Herbie but thats why I said you may have the potential for risk. You never know when somone wants to be an asshatt and turns your master all the way up just to see if your amp will fry. A buddy of mine was looking at the Leash last week and they are on back order so if you go that direction you will have to waite in line. He had an Air Brake a few months ago and loved it. I herd him play his VHT ST through it and it sounded real good. If I were you I would see about brrowing one or go some place where you can demo one just to see if you even need it.

Sixstring

 

[rick13]

Super Ultimate Attenuator....works great, 300 watt capacity, line out options. Check them out.
Rick

 

[herbie]

I just had an awesome weekend playing and my tone was fantastic!!!!!! So I think I will not use an attenuator for now.
thanks Peter!!

Thanks Rick13! yeah the ultimate looks amazing.
So until i read about a few direct attenuator usage with the Herbert, I won't bother

oorbaby:

 

[scottph]

:|::QBB:

Oh

So Scottph tell me what it sounded like with the hotplate?
Did you turn up the volumes and turn down the gains?/

Explain if you want the difference. i would be very interested :barf:

Yeah, I turned the channel vols and the master vols up quite a bit, depending on which settings I used on the Hotplate, and it was fine for the time I used it, but I just came to realize that it sounds much better without that thing even at low volumes.
It sounded - for lack of a better word - clipped in a way. Didn't really notice it when playing, but as soon as I took the Hotplate out of the signal chain I noticed it big time. Especially in channel one...when I cranked it it started to break-up...kinda like channel 2 crunch.

 

[hunter]

What about "Power Scaling" as implemented in the new Suhr Badger amp and provided by http://www.londonpower.com/kits/psbox.htm ?

 

[LaXu]

:|::QBB:

What about "Power Scaling" as implemented in the new Suhr Badger amp and provided by http://www.londonpower.com/kits/psbox.htm ?

Power Scaling works great, I had an amp with it. However, I think the Diezel master volumes work just as well so there's really no need for it.

 

[Sixstring]

:|::QBB:

:|::QBB:

Power Scaling works great, I had an amp with it. However, I think the Diezel master volumes work just as well so there's really no need for it.

^^^^^ I would agree with that and scottph brings up a verry important point, an attenuator will wreck your clean.