Power Tubes - Early, Average, Late

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McLeanAB

McLeanAB

Active member
Hey all!

Playing around with my tube amps (Boogie Mark V:25, Egnater Rebel 30 Mark II, and Peavey 6505HM). Having a good time and trying to get some info on tubes to see what might best suit my needs...

On Dougstubes, he offers several EL84's that have 'early/soft, average/medium, hard/late' distortion which is, I guess, low to higher headroom... great. So, what does that do sonically?

CONTEXT:
Love the 6505, it's got THAT sound.... aggressive, unrelenting, bites like a pitbull, etc. BUT, there's a slight hiss (papery) quality that I can't seem to dial out... did some tube swapping and rebiased the power tubes (cold and hot) so I could hear what effect was happening... there was some improvements, but that slight fizz/papery just wouldn't seem to go away...

Then, I ran my 6505hm preamp section via effects send through the power section of my Mark V:25 and it was HUGE, FAT, WARM, ROUND, SYRUPY, and any other of those nebulous descriptions that lead us in a certain direction... WITH ABSOLUTELY NO FIZZ. Clear, mean, and elements of both amps really showing off their best qualities...

SO... is there something I can do with the choices of 'early, average, late' distortion in the power tubes to get me closer to that Boogie power section? (This goes for my Egnater as well...) :)

Any experiences, or possible mods, etc are greatly appreciated!
 

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no tube expert, but I've always interpreted that as where and how the tube breaks up, related to levels and tone. Lower is a softer tube breakup and earlier, harder louder is more aggressive with more headroom. Meaning it's going to take more volume level before it breaks up, and when it does, it's going to be a more aggressive style of distortion. At least that's how I interpret it.

Edit: I would assume the higher headroom is what you're after. Some tube coloration without adding a lot of power tube distortion.
 
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^^^^^
Thanks for that... not sure what I'm after, other than the sound of the power section of the Boogie... couldn't tell you if the Boogie's power section has an early or late break up... which one would 'mimic' that the best (and I do understand how subtle those differences can be and that the 6505 will NEVER actually sound like the Boogie, I just want it more in that direction).

EDIT: does anyone know if the Boogie's power section has an early or late breakup? And what is it in the power section of the Boogie that makes it sound (seemingly) so unique? Could or should I yanked out the 'computer matched' Mesa EL84's and try them out in the 6505?
 
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If they have the same tube type, Is swap the tubes from the mesa and bias them in your other one just so you can 'rule it out'. You mentioned previously that there will definitely be sound sound differences in the circuit itself and the design. My Rivera has an oversized output transformer. I mention this before I have never heard an amp retain so much tightness and clarity, even when cranked. Normally that woofy sag gets out of control with amps but it does not at all on this one. It uses 6V6 tubes and I am really digging the RCA NOS in there right now.

There are big differences in even just swapping output tubes I have found. If I go to a different manufacturer, the tone is changed sometimes in drastic ways.

You may prefer the tube make that is in the Mesa, or it may be the amp, but swapping tubes should help answer that.

I always hunt around for NOS tubes if I can get them, but that doesn't work for every amp. I have a Vox that I prefer a Shaguang in the output as opposed to a Mullard, against my expectations.

Good luck in the tone hunt. Tubes make a big difference, whether in the input or output.

You may find that putting in a 12AT7 in the line can reduce some hiss from the gain staging being pushed/stacked.
 
McLeanAB said:
Hey all!

Playing around with my tube amps (Boogie Mark V:25, Egnater Rebel 30 Mark II, and Peavey 6505HM). Having a good time and trying to get some info on tubes to see what might best suit my needs...

On Dougstubes, he offers several EL84's that have 'early/soft, average/medium, hard/late' distortion which is, I guess, low to higher headroom... great. So, what does that do sonically?

CONTEXT:
Love the 6505, it's got THAT sound.... aggressive, unrelenting, bites like a pitbull, etc. BUT, there's a slight hiss (papery) quality that I can't seem to dial out... did some tube swapping and rebiased the power tubes (cold and hot) so I could hear what effect was happening... there was some improvements, but that slight fizz/papery just wouldn't seem to go away...

Then, I ran my 6505hm preamp section via effects send through the power section of my Mark V:25 and it was HUGE, FAT, WARM, ROUND, SYRUPY, and any other of those nebulous descriptions that lead us in a certain direction... WITH ABSOLUTELY NO FIZZ. Clear, mean, and elements of both amps really showing off their best qualities...

SO... is there something I can do with the choices of 'early, average, late' distortion in the power tubes to get me closer to that Boogie power section? (This goes for my Egnater as well...) :)

Any experiences, or possible mods, etc are greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Maybe the V:25 breakups earlier, getting you that power amp tube distortion, that softens/rounds the tone?

GuitarGuy08 said:
If they have the same tube type, Is swap the tubes from the mesa and bias them in your other one just so you can 'rule it out'. You mentioned previously that there will definitely be sound sound differences in the circuit itself and the design. My Rivera has an oversized output transformer. I mention this before I have never heard an amp retain so much tightness and clarity, even when cranked. Normally that woofy sag gets out of control with amps but it does not at all on this one. It uses 6V6 tubes and I am really digging the RCA NOS in there right now.

There are big differences in even just swapping output tubes I have found. If I go to a different manufacturer, the tone is changed sometimes in drastic ways.

You may prefer the tube make that is in the Mesa, or it may be the amp, but swapping tubes should help answer that.

I always hunt around for NOS tubes if I can get them, but that doesn't work for every amp. I have a Vox that I prefer a Shaguang in the output as opposed to a Mullard, against my expectations.

Good luck in the tone hunt. Tubes make a big difference, whether in the input or output.

You may find that putting in a 12AT7 in the line can reduce some hiss from the gain staging being pushed/stacked.
Click to expand...
They both run EL84s afaik.
 
how do you send the pre of the 6505 into the Mark V? I'd love to hear mine using my splawn power section.
is it send from the 6505 into the return of the Mark loop?
 
kmanick said:
how do you send the pre of the 6505 into the Mark V? I'd love to hear mine using my splawn power section.
is it send from the 6505 into the return of the Mark loop?
Click to expand...
Yup! Just hit the speaker defeat and the effect send and there you have it! Give a full report when you try it!
 
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