Problems with Renegade 212 (fan and tubes?)

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Holtman

Holtman

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1. When I power on my Renegade, sometimes the fan makes a loud noise. I turn off the amp and turn it back on and the noise stops. This is becoming more frequent as the days go by. 2. I practice for 2-3 hours every day and practice 3 times a week with my band. I mention this because after abut 1 1/2 hours of practicing there is a faint but very annoying, pulsating hiss the amp starts to make. I placed a fan behind the amp and the hiss stopped. I know nothing about tubes, but, I believe this noise was generating from the tubes being too hot (the noise slightly sounded like coffee hitting the hot plate on the coffee maker!) 3. Now, today, my clean channel is crackling, not distorting, and before today the clean channel has always been pristine clean! I switched to channel 2 and turned the gain all the way down to see if I heard the crackling and I did. It doesn't happen when I pick very lightly. Like I said before, I know nothing about tubes, but I have heard that this could be a sign of bad tubes.
If anyone has any knowledge on this, please help. This is my first Egnater Amp and I believe it is a great amp! I spent a lot of money on this Renegade (to me, being Military)I would really like to have these minor problems fixed.
 
1. When I power on my Renegade, sometimes the fan makes a loud noise. I turn off the amp and turn it back on and the noise stops. This is becoming more frequent as the days go by. 2. I practice for 2-3 hours every day and practice 3 times a week with my band. I mention this because after abut 1 1/2 hours of practicing there is a faint but very annoying, pulsating hiss the amp starts to make. I placed a fan behind the amp and the hiss stopped. I know nothing about tubes, but, I believe this noise was generating from the tubes being too hot (the noise slightly sounded like coffee hitting the hot plate on the coffee maker!) 3. Now, today, my clean channel is crackling, not distorting, and before today the clean channel has always been pristine clean! I switched to channel 2 and turned the gain all the way down to see if I heard the crackling and I did. It doesn't happen when I pick very lightly. Like I said before, I know nothing about tubes, but I have heard that this could be a sign of bad tubes.
If anyone has any knowledge on this, please help. This is my first Egnater Amp and I believe it is a great amp! I spent a lot of money on this Renegade (to me, being Military)I would really like to have these minor problems fixed.[/quote]
 
I have owned the Renegade 212 for about 7 months now. When I first got the amp, there were a few times when the fan, which is normally pretty loud anyway, would make an even louder noise - usually within a few minutes of power-up. Almost sounded like the fan-blade was either hitting something or was off-balance axially. When the fan made the noise, I would pull the front "egnater" panel off the amp to see what was going on. That let's you get into the amplifier "internals", including tubes. The panel is only held on by industrial velcro - it comes off pretty easily. I think the pull tab is on the upper left side of the panel if I remember right.

I was never able to see much, but just giving a slight tap in the middle of the fan assembly made the noise go way. After about the third time over a 6 or so week period, the fan never made the noise again. Still runs like a top today - loud but smooth. The fan assembly appears to be installed correctly and solidly, but I guess I won't be surprised if someday the cooling fan gives out........

Regarding the channel behavior you speak about, It definitely could be a tube problem. Almost every time I had one channel go squirrely on me, regardless of the manufacturer, it has been a lil ol' preamp tube causing the problem. I don't know if you should attempt to relate the fan issue with the tube issues at this stage - you probably should contact Egnater (I think nate@egnateramps.com). But it is actually quite normal for preamp tubes to crap out on you, even on a relatively new amp. When I read a bad review or comment about some new amp crapping out immediately after purchase or on the shop floor, 9 times out of 10 it's just a preamp tube. But the person spreading bad words about the amp doesn't seem to understand that tubes go bad, sometimes really fast.

If you have a spare you can begin systematically pulling one preamp tube, replacing it with a known "good tube" and seeing if the problem goes away. It takes a little time and patience, given all the preamp tubes in modern hi-gain amps. Read the manual, and heed all cautions! Electricity is no joke!
 
Thank you very much for the response, very informative. What do you think about the fan situation, do you think the amp will work fine if the fan does "crap" out? When I turned my amp on yesterday, everything was perfect, no crackling sounds from the speakers at all, which was the other problem. I thought this was wierd, I wonder if this and the frying sound (after having the amp on for a while) has something to do with the tubes getting too hot?
I did contact Egnater, and I was told to take out the two 6L6s and play for a while to see if it still happens then take out the two EL34s and also see if the noise happens. I guess I will have to get smart on tubes, if I do replace the tubes, I will probably replace with the same ones. I had a tube amp prior to Renegade (Fender Hot Rod Deluxe), had it for 10 years and never changed the tubes and never had problems! Had to sell to get the Renegade! I'm sure the problems are minor and easily fixed but I get paranoid since this is the most I've spent on an amp! Thanks again for the help.
 
There was a post on the board when the Renegade first came out about how noisy the fan was and would it be OK to disengage the fan at least during recording sessions. Sorry I don't have the link here.....

If I remember correctly the response from Egnater was that the fan is there for a reason, and high heat = shorter tube life. Makes sense really. Given that diagnosing a burnt tube can be somewhat tedious and the fact that the preamp tubes I use are $15 each and the Power tubes are $30-40 each I have elected not to mess with the fan. Egnater didn't expressly say NOT to pull the fan, though if I remember correctly. Just that it would likely impact tube life.

Regarding an older tube amp, I sort of echo your experience with the older stuff. It seems like tubes used to be built better than they are today, or maybe today's high gain amps put more wear and tear on today's tubes. Don't really know. I owned a late 70's Fender Twin in the 80's and I don't ever remember having to mess with tubes either. I had a 96 Marshall DSL 40 combo that was notorious for running WAAAAAY hot and frying it's electronics, but that never happened to me (luckily) and I got like 5 years out of the preamp tubes and NEVER had to replace the EL-84 power tubes while I owned it.

Good luck.
 
Again, thanks for the response. I have contacted Nate a week ago and I have had no response back. I understand they are busy but at least tell me to F off or something! This just means I got to get smart, worst case I will take it to the shop here in town and just pay to have them run through it.
 
rjdhmd":3e6frj4o said:
Almost sounded like the fan-blade was either hitting something or was off-balance axially...

... but just giving a slight tap in the middle of the fan assembly made the noise go way.
Click to expand...


This is exactly how mine sounds but the tap isn't making it go away. I'm thinking of putting some felt or rubber between the bracket and the cab to keep the cab from resonating with the vibration. Thinking this may cut down on the volume of the fan.

Shame on Egnater for putting such a cheesey fan in such a great amp...
 
Just wanted to say that Nate has been working with me on my issues and has been very responsive.
 
Is there also a fan in the Renegade head :scared: or is it only for combos?
 
I was changing preamp tubes in my renegade combo-the fan looks like a basic pc fan-looks very ez to change, my fan makes no mechanical noise.
 
nate@egnateramps.com is the guy to go to with amp issues. I spoke to Nate and John today. They do attempt to answer the 100+ emails and phone calls daily in a timely manner. John explained he also typically finds 10-15 emails in the spam folder every day. Our company email has a fairly intense protection system. If your email "looks" suspect, it may get rejected. If you email and don't get a response within a day or two, try phoning Nate at 1-877-EGNATER. FYI, a noisy fan is not normal and you should contact Nate about that. Intermittent static noises are typically a tube issue. Contact Nate for advice on how to troubleshoot for this. It is never necessary to replace all the tubes when only one may be causing the problem. This would be sort of like replacing all the tires on your car if one goes flat.
 
Just received a new fan in the mail the other day. Nate, thanks for all the help. I am going to remove the different tubes, each set at a time, and see if I still get the pulsating, frying sound. That should narrow it down if this is in fact happening from the power tubes over heating.
 
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