Questions for VH2 owners

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Tacktel

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Hello there,

I received my brand new VH2 yesterday.
I really like the cleans from the CH1, even if I was expecting a bit more precision when turning the gain up (maybe I have to dig a bit more in the EQ of that channel).
My problem concerns the CH2, I find the sound a bit "loose" and not as well defined as I was expecting from an amp in that price range (nor a Diezel) or from what I hear on the few good YouTube videos I watched.
My guitar has SH1 and SH4, I plug it directly in the amp, which is plugged directly into a Diezel RL212.
I know how to play guitar, my playing is not the problem here I'm strictly talking about the sound itself.

So my questions are :
1) Does the amp have to operate at a certain volume to be "alive" ? I'm not expecting that because Peter and Peter told in the presentation video that it can operate correctly at bedroom volume
2) is there any trick in the Diezel EQ I have to know to get a better defined sound ?

Thanks for your answers 🙂


PS: it sounds like in that video while I imagined it more like that
 
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Not sure what you mean by “precision” with channel 1 but for channel 2 the EQ is very dynamic. If I’m playing low volume I might have depth higher to fill out the sound and might lose some tightness but as volume comes up I lower the depth control. I’m a tool fan and all the pictures show the mids cranked but I actually like them slightly below noon on channel 2. Basically don’t be afraid to tweak the EQ with your ears and not your eyes, ymmv.
 
It was better today.
Ch1: the cleans are stellar, I'm blown away
Ch2: Overall it's better than the first day. I put a Maxon 808 for the hard stuff, it really makes a difference in terms of precision. Not surprising but I was expecting to get that kind of tone without it.

I understood what made me change my mind overall between the first and second day.
The first day I was sitting a bit away and in front of the speaker.
Today I was standing right in front or to the side.
The difference in sound quality between these two positions is considerable. In front of the speakers the sound is almost entirely made of treble/high mids, bass disappears completely.
I know this phenomenon, the central cone being what propagates the highs it is normal to hear more of them, but at this point it is the first time. My peavey 6505 sounds better in these conditions of placement for example, which is really surprising.

Should I be concerned about this phenomenon? Have you had similar experiences?

If when playing in a band or on stage the people standing in front of the speaker hear this sound I think it will not do it. I'm not going to turn the speaker around, it doesn't make sense.
 
Something I did with my VH2 to get a more defined sound on channel 2 was change the V1 tube to a TAD 7025. Worked for me.
 
Tacktel said:
It was better today.
Ch1: the cleans are stellar, I'm blown away
Ch2: Overall it's better than the first day. I put a Maxon 808 for the hard stuff, it really makes a difference in terms of precision. Not surprising but I was expecting to get that kind of tone without it.

I understood what made me change my mind overall between the first and second day.
The first day I was sitting a bit away and in front of the speaker.
Today I was standing right in front or to the side.
The difference in sound quality between these two positions is considerable. In front of the speakers the sound is almost entirely made of treble/high mids, bass disappears completely.
I know this phenomenon, the central cone being what propagates the highs it is normal to hear more of them, but at this point it is the first time. My peavey 6505 sounds better in these conditions of placement for example, which is really surprising.

Should I be concerned about this phenomenon? Have you had similar experiences?

If when playing in a band or on stage the people standing in front of the speaker hear this sound I think it will not do it. I'm not going to turn the speaker around, it doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
I had this same experience with my VHX. Through the same speaker cabinet (A Mesa Rectifier 412 slant cab), my Engl SE sounds fairly consistent at any angle and almost better when facing the speaker directly. But the VHX sounds incredibly harsh and unpleasant in the same position, I have to angle the cab away or sit off to the side. When I do, it sounds thunderous and absolutely incredible, but it struck me as odd that it was so much more sensitive to the position of your ears relative to the speakers compared to my Mesa Triple Rectifier and my Engl SE.

I have a Diezel 412 FV on the way. I'm not expecting that to solve the issue, it may actually worsen it given how that cab is supposed to be a lot more directional, but in all the comparison demos I've heard, it was still the best sounding so we'll see how it turns out in practice.

Edit: After I actually tried comparing the VHX and the SE using very similar settings and volume level and tested out the cab angle again just to verify. This time, the SE was actually only slightly less harsh when listening straight on, the difference wasn't nearly as big as I remembered. Weird how perception and memory work like that.
 
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Owned the VH2 for a couple years now and use it constantly in a band and live setting.
I use a Ts9 for Ch2, I’ve also had all my guitars sound different with the same settings on the amp and only different pickups, there’s no right or wrong in that regard. However I noticed the amp sounds amazing at really high volumes but also the “bathroom” volume that Peter mentions in the video sounds great too for when you have to play quietly. That’s usually how I play anyways, really quiet or really loud lol.
 
WyvernClaw said:
I had this same experience with my VHX. Through the same speaker cabinet (A Mesa Rectifier 412 slant cab), my Engl SE sounds fairly consistent at any angle and almost better when facing the speaker directly. But the VHX sounds incredibly harsh and unpleasant in the same position, I have to angle the cab away or sit off to the side. When I do, it sounds thunderous and absolutely incredible, but it struck me as odd that it was so much more sensitive to the position of your ears relative to the speakers compared to my Mesa Triple Rectifier and my Engl SE.

I have a Diezel 412 FV on the way. I'm not expecting that to solve the issue, it may actually worsen it given how that cab is supposed to be a lot more directional, but in all the comparison demos I've heard, it was still the best sounding so we'll see how it turns out in practice.

Edit: After I actually tried comparing the VHX and the SE using very similar settings and volume level and tested out the cab angle again just to verify. This time, the SE was actually only slightly less harsh when listening straight on, the difference wasn't nearly as big as I remembered. Weird how perception and memory work like that.
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Trick with Diezel is to not tune it like other amps, expecially on the power amp section.
Try running both presence, deep and treble at half or lower and increase the mids.
For instance presence at half on Diezel is like presence at 3/4 on other amps.

It would take a bit of familiarity to get the best, but I can assure you that after you get to know exactly how every setting affect the tone you would never look back!

Something that does help a lot is putting some music track to play along with, as the first time when playing alone (at least that was my first experience) you will likely overcompensate the high frequencies.

Let me know if it helps :)
 
Leo Diezel said:
Trick with Diezel is to not tune it like other amps, expecially on the power amp section.
Try running both presence, deep and treble at half or lower and increase the mids.
For instance presence at half on Diezel is like presence at 3/4 on other amps.

It would take a bit of familiarity to get the best, but I can assure you that after you get to know exactly how every setting affect the tone you would never look back!

Something that does help a lot is putting some music track to play along with, as the first time when playing alone (at least that was my first experience) you will likely overcompensate the high frequencies.

Let me know if it helps :)
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Thanks, Leo. I'll give that a shot, though I did notice in my testing yesterday that the Engl was actually a lot harsher than I remembered with the cab facing directly at me. I think part of it was I raised the Engl's volume a tad to match what I had going with the VHX which perhaps made it less tolerable than I remembered.

Here are my main rhythm settings on the VHX though:
Red channel
Gain 0.80
Shape 0
Classic voicing
treble 0.65
middle 0.60
Bass 0.60
volume 0.70
presence 0.65
midcut 0.35
Deep 0.50

Master volume is at about 8:30 o'clock.

That doesn't seem like too extreme of a setting to me, but maybe you can give a bit more insight. The gain is a little high, but I play without an OD and even at that level, it's still less gain than the aforementioned Engl SE with the gain knob at halfway. I'm also more partial to biting, aggressive tones and I mainly play 7 strings that benefit some from some added highs and a touch of midcut. I realize the treble and presence are a little over halfway, but I always start dialing in with a "less is more" approach and remember finding that I needed to up them a bit or else it sounded a little too dark and dull in comparison. I use the red channel with a modern voice and the highs rolled back a touch to eliminate any shrill sounds for lead work.

I'll likely EQ it a little different if I ever use it in a band context, but I'll have to experiment when the other guitarist I play with comes back and see if that's necessary. Sitting a few feet back with the cab angled away, it's one of the best guitar tones I've ever dialed in, for my tastes. I'll try playing with the presence settings though, hopefully that will make it a little more tolerable at all speaker angles.

Any EQ suggestions for when my Diezel 412 FV arrives this week?
 
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WyvernClaw said:
Thanks, Leo. I'll give that a shot, though I did notice in my testing yesterday that the Engl was actually a lot harsher than I remembered with the cab facing directly at me. I think part of it was I raised the Engl's volume a tad to match what I had going with the VHX which perhaps made it less tolerable than I remembered.

Here are my main rhythm settings on the VHX though:
Red channel
Gain 0.80
Shape 0
Classic voicing
treble 0.65
middle 0.60
Bass 0.50
volume 0.70
presence 0.65
midcut 0.35
Deep 0.35

Master volume is at about 8:30 o'clock.

That doesn't seem like too extreme of a setting to me, but maybe you can give a bit more insight. The gain is a little high, but I play without an OD and even at that level, it's still less gain than the aforementioned Engl SE with the gain knob at halfway. I'm also more partial to biting, aggressive tones and I mainly play 7 strings that benefit some from some added highs and a touch of midcut. I realize the treble and presence are a little over halfway, but I always start dialing in with a "less is more" approach and remember finding that I needed to up them a bit or else it sounded a little too dark and dull in comparison. I use the red channel with a modern voice and the highs rolled back a touch to eliminate any shrill sounds for lead work.

I'll likely EQ it a little different if I ever use it in a band context, but I'll have to experiment when the other guitarist I play with comes back and see if that's necessary. Sitting a few feet back with the cab angled away, it's one of the best guitar tones I've ever dialed in, for my tastes. I'll try playing with the presence settings though, hopefully that will make it a little more tolerable at all speaker angles.

Any EQ suggestions for when my Diezel 412 FV arrives this week?
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Well that's a pretty good setting!
I'd say that once you get used to the dynamic feeling you would reduce gain a bit as well, expecially at high volume.

EQ wise It seems perfect to my taste too, with that configuration I usually would run Bass to 0.65 with my guitars/cabs.

With the diezel CAB EQ would be pretty much unchanged, probably just a bit more BASS and maybe DEEP and less mid cut.

Thank you for sharing it :)
 
Leo Diezel said:
Well that's a pretty good setting!
I'd say that once you get used to the dynamic feeling you would reduce gain a bit as well, expecially at high volume.

EQ wise It seems perfect to my taste too, with that configuration I usually would run Bass to 0.65 with my guitars/cabs.

With the diezel CAB EQ would be pretty much unchanged, probably just a bit more BASS and maybe DEEP and less mid cut.

Thank you for sharing it :)
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I'm pretty relieved to hear that, thanks for checking it out! Sometimes I second guess myself and worry "Is this too bright/shrill?" or "Do I just happen to enjoy sub-par guitar tones?" Haha. I have experimented with other settings, but they just don't sound and feel right for my style, too dark or dull with the high end rolled off from where I have it there. So I'm glad you find it nearly perfect as well.

Once the 412 FV comes in, I will likely take you up on the bass/deep/midcut changes though. Right now, using what I believe is a rear-loaded Recto cab, it can get a little boomy if you have the low end up too far, but since that's my only cab until the Diezel comes in this week, I have to tailor my EQ to it.

As for the initial cab placement/angle discussion, I think it just comes down to the fact we rarely dial guitars in to be heard head-on like that since it's a relatively narrow window to be in.

Adding another edit to this post, turns out my bass was actually at 0.6 and the deep at 0.5 so I edited the post with my settings to reflect that. I pulled the numbers from a photo from a month or two ago, forgot I did some further tweaking since then when I checked it out today.
 
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My two cents......I have a VH2 and a D-Moll using a Diezel RL212, Bogner 212CB, and/or Friedman 412 cabs.
To tighten up my sound, I run an 8ohm V30 and 8ohm Greenback wired in series in each 212 (cabs become 16 ohm) and the Friedman has two V30’s/two Greenbacks at 16ohm anyway....
I started running this speaker combo about ten years ago because that’s what James Hetfield and Adam Jones and others use in the studio and live....and it works for me....
 
I’ve got a VH2 and haven’t experienced any lack of “precision” you describe. It’s a nice tight compressed clean angry growl on channel 2. At bedroom volume it sounds killer as well. Took a minute to dial in and what I notice is the amp must be dialed in more than other maps I’ve had (duel rec) (5153) at certain volume levels. It’s a very sensitive amp. Overall best sounding map I’ve ever had. Running through a Diezel rear loaded 4x12 with celest. v30’s
 
It's because of your Seymour Duncan SH1 and SH4 pickups. I've been using them for years and noticed a lot of the amps I played felt loose and/or had too much bass. I couldn't figure it out. I thought it might be the cab I was using, the speakers, where I had it located in the room or the amp itself.

I had a chance to try my friend's guitar recently that has Bill Lawrence L500 pickups in it and it blew my mind how much better my amps sounded with them (VHX and an Orange Rockerverb MkIII). They sounded exactly they way I wanted them to: tight, punchy and balanced across the EQ spectrum. I tried my guitar again in comparison and I was back in mud city. The amps were darker and looser with too much bass.

Needless to say, I will never be using the SH1 or SH4 in my guitars ever again. I only used them because they came stock in my ESPs and I was used to their sound. There may be some people that prefer them, but I realize now they're not for me.

So OP, if you're not 100% happy with the tone you're getting right now, I promise you a pickup upgrade would fix that.
 
Tacktel said:
It was better today.
Ch1: the cleans are stellar, I'm blown away
Ch2: Overall it's better than the first day. I put a Maxon 808 for the hard stuff, it really makes a difference in terms of precision. Not surprising but I was expecting to get that kind of tone without it.

I understood what made me change my mind overall between the first and second day.
The first day I was sitting a bit away and in front of the speaker.
Today I was standing right in front or to the side.
The difference in sound quality between these two positions is considerable. In front of the speakers the sound is almost entirely made of treble/high mids, bass disappears completely.
I know this phenomenon, the central cone being what propagates the highs it is normal to hear more of them, but at this point it is the first time. My peavey 6505 sounds better in these conditions of placement for example, which is really surprising.

Should I be concerned about this phenomenon? Have you had similar experiences?

If when playing in a band or on stage the people standing in front of the speaker hear this sound I think it will not do it. I'm not going to turn the speaker around, it doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
I have a similar issue with my Mark V 25 and 1x12 Widebody Front Port cabinet (C90 Speaker). Sounds great off to the side of amp, but 6 feet away directly in front its very harsh, bass sounds like a wet fart, and no separation of notes on Drop D Chords. Actually thinking of getting rid of the Mesa and upgrading to a VH2, but don't want to run into the same issue.

I've got two guitars one with Burstbuckers and one with a Super Distortion in the Bridge. Both get harsh in the position, but the Burstbuckers less so (which makes sense given the output and bass heavy SDs), but both get real harsh.

Did you ever find the solution?
 
Flintstonerocks said:
My two cents......I have a VH2 and a D-Moll using a Diezel RL212, Bogner 212CB, and/or Friedman 412 cabs.
To tighten up my sound, I run an 8ohm V30 and 8ohm Greenback wired in series in each 212 (cabs become 16 ohm) and the Friedman has two V30’s/two Greenbacks at 16ohm anyway....
I started running this speaker combo about ten years ago because that’s what James Hetfield and Adam Jones and others use in the studio and live....and it works for me....
Click to expand...
Any source on these speaker set ups that I could read?
 
WyvernClaw said:
I had this same experience with my VHX. Through the same speaker cabinet (A Mesa Rectifier 412 slant cab), my Engl SE sounds fairly consistent at any angle and almost better when facing the speaker directly. But the VHX sounds incredibly harsh and unpleasant in the same position, I have to angle the cab away or sit off to the side. When I do, it sounds thunderous and absolutely incredible, but it struck me as odd that it was so much more sensitive to the position of your ears relative to the speakers compared to my Mesa Triple Rectifier and my Engl SE.

I have a Diezel 412 FV on the way. I'm not expecting that to solve the issue, it may actually worsen it given how that cab is supposed to be a lot more directional, but in all the comparison demos I've heard, it was still the best sounding so we'll see how it turns out in practice.

Edit: After I actually tried comparing the VHX and the SE using very similar settings and volume level and tested out the cab angle again just to verify. This time, the SE was actually only slightly less harsh when listening straight on, the difference wasn't nearly as big as I remembered. Weird how perception and memory work like that.
Click to expand...
How do the 412 sound?

I've got a 2x12 RL coming in soon. So curious if I run into to same issue if the 412 helps.
 
Anxiety Serum said:
I have a similar issue with my Mark V 25 and 1x12 Widebody Front Port cabinet (C90 Speaker). Sounds great off to the side of amp, but 6 feet away directly in front its very harsh, bass sounds like a wet fart, and no separation of notes on Drop D Chords. Actually thinking of getting rid of the Mesa and upgrading to a VH2, but don't want to run into the same issue.

I've got two guitars one with Burstbuckers and one with a Super Distortion in the Bridge. Both get harsh in the position, but the Burstbuckers less so (which makes sense given the output and bass heavy SDs), but both get real harsh.

Did you ever find the solution?
Click to expand...
A/B ed my new VH2 today with the Mesa Mark V 25 into the Diezel 2x12 RL V30s. The VH2 is way more consistent the than my Mesa. The 2x12 cab helped some compared to the 1x12 widebody Mesa. But the VH2 Amp made a much bigger difference. Not exact same sounding in different locations (side and in front), but 80% better than the Mark which was a completely different sound.
 
Flintstonerocks said:
Something I did with my VH2 to get a more defined sound on channel 2 was change the V1 tube to a TAD 7025. Worked for me.
Click to expand...
i've read your advise ....and it's true ...changed kt77 to 6L6 with 7025 in V1 .....open's up the channel , more defined , more clarity ....a new amp ....was ready to order a vh4 to compare ....not anymore for the moment .....great amp....thanks
 
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