Randall Mic Eliminator Issues

[aeroic]

I'm having issues with one of the ones I got. I run it in stereo, just one side at a time it works fine (this is just with the speaker cables plugged in). If I run both at the same time, they are out of phase causing the the tone to drop a TON and volume to drop a lot. I've never had something like this happen. I know they are good speakers since they are ones that I had previously. I put the Randall Mic Eliminators in my Egnater TM 2x12 that I just got today, and I am super bummed it isn't working.

And might I say, it is a PAIN IN THE ASS to change speakers in / out of the TM cabs! One speaker at a time, they sound good!

I did verify that the speakers are hooked up correctly. Red to positive, black to ground .

Eric

 

[jmgman69]

Sounds like something is hooked up wrong Eric.Just remember when opening up the TM cab,DeWalt is your friend Dude tell me about all the screws

 

[aeroic]

Sounds like something is hooked up wrong Eric.Just remember when opening up the TM cab,DeWalt is your friend Dude tell me about all the screws

Holy shit there is a ton of screws man! Black and Decker drill is definitely my friend!!!

Well, I did check that I had things hooked up right, and it is. I'm at a loss for what's up. Jeff / Bruce...any thoughts?? I really want the Randall ME to work! Friggin great concept..

And dude...you get up WAY TO EARLY for being on the west coast.

Eric

 

[jmgman69]

Sounds like something is hooked up wrong Eric.Just remember when opening up the TM cab,DeWalt is your friend Dude tell me about all the screws

Holy shit there is a ton of screws man! Black and Decker drill is definitely my friend!!!

Well, I did check that I had things hooked up right, and it is. I'm at a loss for what's up. Jeff / Bruce...any thoughts?? I really want the Randall ME to work! Friggin great concept..

And dude...you get up WAY TO EARLY for being on the west coast.

Eric

Eric my man,I have 3 daughters and a wife only time for peace man!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RockStarNick]

Eric, as a quick fix, to see if it's phasing, can you try using a XLR cable that has the polarity flipped (i.e. phase reversed)?

Swap pins 2 and 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

 

[aeroic]

Eric, as a quick fix, to see if it's phasing, can you try using a XLR cable that has the polarity flipped (i.e. phase reversed)?

Swap pins 2 and 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

Just to make a comment. This is with NO XLR cables connected. The sound coming out of the speakers is out of phase.

Left side of the VHT hooked up to the Left speaker....sounds great....right side of the VHT hooked up to the Right speakers...sounds great when i just have either left or right side of the VHT on at a time. Turn both sides on, and instant lack of "balls." If I run the cab in mono, it does the same thing. I haven't even tried to the XLR connectors yet.

Eric

 

[evink1]

Eric,

There is definately an issue with these being wired out of phase. We ordered 6 band new Randall Cabinets with these on them and only 2 of the six were right. We heard weak bass and all the characteristics of two speakers being out of phase on all the rest of the Randall cabinets.

So we popped the side handles out of the cabinets and merely switched the wires on one side's speakers to "NOT MATCH" the actual polarity they were saying to use by the stampings on the speakers and eliminators.

Low and behold it was 4 other cabinets being mean as heck. So we have first hand experiance in knowing something is either labeled wrong or there is something going on in the Series/Parallel wiring of these things.

Our 4 that had to be done are still cranking away 3 years later and sound just as good as the day we made the wiring switch over.

We just used our ears to tell us what two speakers sounded like they were weaker on the low end and flopped the two wires on that particular speaker that in turn fixed it's series wired one and the entire parallel came in sounding huge.

Hope that helps you all with the Mic elim dilimas we had at first.

Kevin

 

[aeroic]

Eric,

There is definately an issue with these being wired out of phase. We ordered 6 band new Randall Cabinets with these on them and only 2 of the six were right. We heard weak bass and all the characteristics of two speakers being out of phase on all the rest of the Randall cabinets.

So we popped the side handles out of the cabinets and merely switched the wires on one side's speakers to "NOT MATCH" the actual polarity they were saying to use by the stampings on the speakers and eliminators.

Low and behold it was 4 other cabinets being mean as heck. So we have first hand experiance in knowing something is either labeled wrong or there is something going on in the Series/Parallel wiring of these things.

Our 4 that had to be done are still cranking away 3 years later and sound just as good as the day we made the wiring switch over.

We just used our ears to tell us what two speakers sounded like they were weaker on the low end and flopped the two wires on that particular speaker that in turn fixed it's series wired one and the entire parallel came in sounding huge.

Hope that helps you all with the Mic elim dilimas we had at first.

Kevin

Wow, that's exactly the problem that I hm having! I'll just go flip one set of speakers, and try that out . I didn't expect that to be the issue, that they were miswired or labeled, but hey, if you tried that and it fixed it, then I'll do the same. I just didn't want screw up a good speaker.

Jeff / Bruce, have you heard anyone else having these issues?

Eric

 

[evink1]

Eric the great thing about speakers is you can't ruin them wiring them out of phase. It will just merely lose some bottom end. For a few years I used to install high end car stereos and we did something called an Isobaric mount.

Basically you take two 12" or two 15" subs and you mount them facing each other. Cone to cone bolted actually to each other with only a 3/4 " piece of ply seperating them. One is down inside of a ported box the other is merely hanging in the open air space.

As they get slammed one pulls as one pushes and you get insane DB levels out of the system this way. It doesn't sound bad either but was mainly used for cars entering into sound pressure level contests. I can tell you it almost stops your heart the sound pressures get so high. Here is a link to a good read on Isobaric speaker arrangements. There are a few ways to do it but cone to cone always worked the best for my tastes. http://www.caraudiohelp.com/custom_car_audio_boxes/custom_car_audio_boxes.htm

The speakers then move together like the shocks on a car as one pushes out the other is sucking in and visa versa. Pretty neat system that you wouldn't think would even work. You get away with it ONLY because you are dealing with 125hz and down at the cars crossover. They would suck the life out of our midrangy guitars for sure.

The reason out of phase is killing your cabinets is because they are all mounted to push air in the same direction and you have two sets of speakers actually suckin in on every chunk of you strings. Hence the phase cancellation comes in to play.

Rest assured though you will never blow a speaker up wiring it wrong. It will merely sound like crap. Hope this helps and that you all find the read about Isobaric mounting to be interesting.

 

[aeroic]

Eric the great thing about speakers is you can't ruin them wiring them out of phase. It will just merely lose some bottom end. For a few years I used to install high end car stereos and we did something called an Isobaric mount.

Basically you take two 12" or two 15" subs and you mount them facing each other. Cone to cone bolted actually to each other with only a 3/4 " piece of ply seperating them. One is down inside of a ported box the other is merely hanging in the open air space.

As they get slammed one pulls as one pushes and you get insane DB levels out of the system this way. It doesn't sound bad either but was mainly used for cars entering into sound pressure level contests. I can tell you it almost stops your heart the sound pressures get so high. Here is a link to a good read on Isobaric speaker arrangements. There are a few ways to do it but cone to cone always worked the best for my tastes. http://www.caraudiohelp.com/custom_car_audio_boxes/custom_car_audio_boxes.htm

The speakers then move together like the shocks on a car as one pushes out the other is sucking in and visa versa. Pretty neat system that you wouldn't think would even work. You get away with it ONLY because you are dealing with 125hz and down at the cars crossover. They would suck the life out of our midrangy guitars for sure.

The reason out of phase is killing your cabinets is because they are all mounted to push air in the same direction and you have two sets of speakers actually suckin in on every chunk of you strings. Hence the phase cancellation comes in to play.

Rest assured though you will never blow a speaker up wiring it wrong. It will merely sound like crap. Hope this helps and that you all find the read about Isobaric mounting to be interesting.

Well that was it man. Changed it over this morning, and the cab kills!!!!

Thanks a ton man. I knew in car stereos they did this, and was pretty sure it wouldn't hurt the speaker, but I just didn't want to do anything as I wasn't totally sure!

I'll definitely check out that link you sent .

Eric

 

[evink1]

Awesome Eric !!!!!!!!! I was frustrated as heck at 1400 a piece speakers sounding like crap and they were brand new. I was glad it was an easy fix but man tearing new cabs apart to fix this wasn't really on the list of things to do that night.

Happy Shredding today my friend. Hopefully you were lucky enough to stay home today. Your only 30 minutes from me and we got 3/4 of an inch of ice overnight. the commute into work even with my 4x4 was all but fun. Especially knowing I could have played my new Eggie all day long. Darn jobs anyhow.

 

[aeroic]

Awesome Eric !!!!!!!!! I was frustrated as heck at 1400 a piece speakers sounding like crap and they were brand new. I was glad it was an easy fix but man tearing new cabs apart to fix this wasn't really on the list of things to do that night.

Happy Shredding today my friend. Hopefully you were lucky enough to stay home today. Your only 30 minutes from me and we got 3/4 of an inch of ice overnight. the commute into work even with my 4x4 was all but fun. Especially knowing I could have played my new Eggie all day long. Darn jobs anyhow.

Luckily I work from home. Unluckily I never get snow days!!! We got about 1/4" of ice overnight. But the roads here are fine since it has warmed up above freezing. At least in town they are.

Eric

 

[evink1]

We keep drifting from 32 to 28 degrees so it is nothing but a huge Hockey rink. I love hockey though since we are home to the Riverman so it is all working out. Now to start a fight with someone and the day will be complete.

 

[Fallout Labs]

We keep drifting from 32 to 28 degrees so it is nothing but a huge Hockey rink. I love hockey though since we are home to the Riverman so it is all working out. Now to start a fight with someone and the day will be complete.

its -18F here today with the wind.

 

[aeroic]

We keep drifting from 32 to 28 degrees so it is nothing but a huge Hockey rink. I love hockey though since we are home to the Riverman so it is all working out. Now to start a fight with someone and the day will be complete.

Yeah...I hear ya man. It's a pile of slush here. Some down trees and lines, but nothing unmanageable. Looks like we didn't get hit as hard as Peoria though. Thankfully there has been little to no wind here!

Eric

 

[evink1]

Casey and Eric sounds like we need to warm ourselves up with the beautiful glow of those tubes from our amps. AHHHH Now that would be a good day off from work indeed.

 

[Fallout Labs]

Casey and Eric sounds like we need to warm ourselves up with the beautiful glow of those tubes from our amps. AHHHH Now that would be a good day off from work indeed.

what? its not even cold yet... you americans

 

[evink1]

Casey I have a friend who just moved here from Oslo, Norway. He laughed at me yesterday for saying I am sick of all the cold and snow already. He said there is still blades of grass sticking up out of the snow so we haven't even seen snow yet. I think he isn't right or something.

 

[jlbaxe]

Casey and Eric sounds like we need to warm ourselves up with the beautiful glow of those tubes from our amps. AHHHH Now that would be a good day off from work indeed.

what? its not even cold yet... you americans

LOL im still in shorts and a tee shirt..some days i through on a jacket

 

[broknstuff]

I'm in Miami woot woot 75 degrees +/- 10 all "winter"