Rebel Tech Questions

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nikki-k

nikki-k

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Hi!
I have had my Rebel for a couple days, and spent time chatting with John Ewing (thank you again for your time!) and Corey (Mr EggStacks ;) thank you again as well!).

When I got it, I hooked it up to EVM-12L loaded cabs (2x12 and 4x12) and it was a bit.. well, the gain was brittle and thin (for me). I know the EV's need to be pushed to shine, but it was still not my thing. I am planning on trying out some different Greenback types in the 2x12. I was ready to pack it up and call it a day, but John said to call when I got it. John Ewing took the time to speak with me (again!), and when I got off the phone, I pulled the chassis, and pulled the stock 12AX7 tubes. I flipped the unit, and did a quick follow of the boards, and it appears that V1 is not closest to the input, and is in fact properly labeled. V2 is closest, and then V3 sits almost mid chassis, which appears to be the PI. Also, I guessed it was a pre PI MV type circuit, and John said today (yet ANOTHER conversation where I prattled on and on ;) ) that he believes that yes, it is Pre PI MV. As such, I am treating the PI as being post MV.

I would LOVE to see a schematic, but shy of that.. a block diagram would be so very, very AWESOME to see. Please? Pretty please?

I have played with some tube combos, and have decided that for me, to my ear, the stock tubes are a bit too "modern." In fact, I would describe the Rebel as "a modern voiced amp." I would love to have a schematic, but shy of that, I will still eventually do some light mod'ing I think. Tonestack and other "points of color" would be fun to play with a bit. It is simply a bit.. hmm.. even if I said "1.5k->3k over zealous at points" (2k with a moderate Q pulldown helps slightly), but it is in fact a certain.. graininess that gets me I think. Not sure yet. Perhaps a warmer speaker with slightly hyped low mids and rolled upper mids and soft top end would make a big difference.. Even so, I am using some 70's "Made in England" grey plate Brimar ECC83's in V1, V2 and V3, and the change is DRASTIC. (15mm plate tube, very warm.. could use some kick though). Placing an MXR 10-band up front and "frown face" on it with a slight output boost really allows it to shine with the Brimar tubes. The Brimars round and fill, but the low end gets hyped a bit, and as some rock guitarists will do, that frown EQ allows the gain stage(s) to work without flubbing up the lows, and "brittle/shriek'ing" the highs. I can get very close to an early AC/DC live sound with it liek this!

So, block diagram would be great so I can figure what is where in the chain.

The heat sink.. is it for the power scaling? I guessed it was not a London Power Scaling licensed bit, and John confirmed this.. true? Even sso, I am guessing the heat sink is for the power scaling feature? Regardless, there is a bundle of wires that cross over the one end of the heatsink! I do not care for this, and will likely rewire it once the warranty is gone, but I am curious to know if I am correct, and how hot the sink is expected to get.

The power section...
If one tube dies (say, an EL84), will it still operate on the other set of tubes if the front dial is set full to the others?

I think that is about it for now. Answers breed more questions! :D
Really diggin the amp, and I am almost tempted to wait for someone to tire of theirs in several months, buy it cheap, and then frankenstein the pee-pee out of it!!! :D
I think I would...
Pull the power scaling and add a PostPIMV; mount the preamp sockets to the chassis, and maybe do a custom breadboard of the main component board, re-value the tonestack a little, use the bright n tight switches for something fun... who knows? Cool amp out of the box, but it is simply far to alluring to not play with the guts! Sorry Bruce.. you have created an amp that is too much fun!!! :D

nikki :D
 
Quick update...

I loaded Greenbacks (G12M-25 classics) in my one 2x12, and it is VERY cool. Totally love it!!! Trying to discover if it prefers them wired as series=16ohm, or parallel=4ohms. Want to open it up and see how it does now... Also want to try a G12M-65. Wish I could afford the cash and space for the Egnater 1x12 with the Elite 80...

Also, found a tube combo I love alot so far. V1= Tung-Sol 12AX7, V2=Brimar ECC83 (70's MIB), and V3/PI=Stock GT/Egnater (different labeling from the other two stock tubes, can I assume it being a balanced tube, thus different label? Grey/silver markings?) The Tung-Sol adds a little kick, and is smoother than the GT's (IMO).. sorta like a ruder/higher gain Brimar or old Mullard. The Brimar smooths, and then since the PI is post MV, the stock tube did just fine. I think if I mod'd it to be a PostPIMV, or gigged out with it as my gain amp and ran it closer to wide open, I might want to spend time with the PI tube. I tried a couple 12AX7's that were not originally purchased as balanced, and the stock GT seemed to be just a little.. hmm.. sweeter? Nice growl now.. nice "race day Ducati" growl :D

Using an MXR 10-band up front (frown face pattern) allows the gain stages to breath well, and then add the low and high end back in with the tonestack. Kick the output gain on the EQ up a tiny bit can be a nice boost for leads. Need to find a nice OD pedal that will be good for this...

I am also really starting to enjoy the tube blend! I now seem to be running at about 1-2 o'clock with the tube blend, still preferring the EL84's; but the 6V6's seem to tighten things up, and blending those in allows me to vary the tightness to taste. Pretty cool!

The power scaling.. well, with the tubes sorted (for now ;) ), and discovering that (for me) the Greenbacks are shining big time, the power scaling shows it's benefit and talent.. ALOT. If I put the gain up near full, tone to taste, and then set to 1 watt and bring the Master up just a little more than "Ahh.. I can hear it now.." it can sing really well. Bring the Watts from 1 watt up to 20, and the further from 1 watt I get, the more "stale" it gets. The power section slowly revs back. The Master and Watts sections are pretty damn interdependent. Really nice. :D

With all the good, there comes the bad. I rolled back the Gain full counter-clockwise, rolled the Master up close to full, and as soon as I cracked the Gain.. HUUMMMMMMMMM. I need to isolate it to see if ti is simply a ground issue or not. Plugged into a power strip or straight into the wall, huuuummmmm...

Once it gets sorted, I think it is actually good to go back in the headbox!
nikki :D
 
Using my Eminence GB12 speakers which are greenback inspired. This amp likes a 2X12 with greeny tone big time. Smart move. I too could dig a diagram of the unit to get the tube positions from the horses mouth. I'd liek to play with tube values, brands.
 
3 Mile Stone":2jf90roe said:
Using my Eminence GB12 speakers which are greenback inspired. This amp likes a 2X12 with greeny tone big time. Smart move. I too could dig a diagram of the unit to get the tube positions from the horses mouth. I'd liek to play with tube values, brands.
+1 I have a 412 loaded with Private Jacks and MY OH MY!!!!!Huge
 
Hi!
Yeah, it has really been cool to come back to Greenbacks with this. Still love my EVM-12L's, but I love diversity. :D

The big part of the diagram is figuring out what is used for what, and similarly.. really would like to get the tube stuff sorted. Been doing everything by tracing and guessing.

Tube closest to input is marked as V2, tube next to it is marked V1. By tracing, they seem correctly marked. V3 is obviously the PI. Trying to figure how the rest is run though.. V1a or V1b as initial gain? I am assuming Gain control before hitting.. V2a? Or the other half of V1? Cathode Follower for pre-Tonestack current boost? Any stage following the tonestack, but before PI? MasterVolume= Pre send/return? Thus, MV->S/R->PI?

Without spending more than a few minutes, how about a guess of..
Input -> V1b -> Gain Pot -> V1a -> V2b -> V2a (CathodeFollower) -> Tonestack -> MV -> Send/Retrun -> V3ab (PI) -> Power Section
With no tube buffer for the S/R, and no verb.. seems like a decent guess :D I am far from knowledgeable when it comes to tube amps. One aspect of things I never delved into due to a fear of electrocution. Funny thing is, I am a total tom-boy, and I have worked in big HVAC units, and when I played on the road, I always brought a power distro to tap into the mains in a club vs. using their own (usually horrible) box/wall outlets. Been knocked on my butt a few times, lightly scorched skin, burnt hair, etc..lol. Finally to a point that I need to learn this stuff..

I still believe that heat sink is for the scaling section...
 
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