Recording dudes... where do you usually mic large dustcap Celestions?

[Rex Rocker]

Always had trouble with T-75's. If I pointed the mic at the usual cone meets the dustcap spot, they just came out super dark and distant. If I moved the mic further in, it got fizzy super fast to the point where ir almost started phasey because it got so thin?

I think my biggest problem is I'm very used to visual cues like pointing right were the dustcap meets the cone, and just move the mic further away or closer in to the grill to fine-tune it. I've rarely ever had to move to the sides to find the right spot. Honestly, if the balance was off, I'd rather try a different speaker in the cab or tweak the amp altogether.

I understand I'm tweaking with my eyes rather than my ears, but then, there's the matter of reproductibility in case I ever want to go back to mic'ing a similar tone sometime later. I I just point at some random point inside the dustcap's perimeter, how do I know I'm pointing the mic at the same position again sometime later?

So what do you guys do in those cases? Like with 65's, K-100's, or Redbacks which I know are fairly popular speakers to mic up.

 

[ZEN Amps]

Always had trouble with T-75's. If I pointed the mic at the usual cone meets the dustcap spot, they just came out super dark and distant. If I moved the mic further in, it got fizzy super fast to the point where ir almost started phasey because it got so thin?

I think my biggest problem is I'm very used to visual cues like pointing right were the dustcap meets the cone, and just move the mic further away or closer in to the grill to fine-tune it. I've rarely ever had to move to the sides to find the right spot. Honestly, if the balance was off, I'd rather try a different speaker in the cab or tweak the amp altogether.

I understand I'm tweaking with my eyes rather than my ears, but then, there's the matter of reproductibility in case I ever want to go back to mic'ing a similar tone sometime later. I I just point at some random point inside the dustcap's perimeter, how do I know I'm pointing the mic at the same position again sometime later?

So what do you guys do in those cases? Like with 65's, K-100's, or Redbacks which I know are fairly popular speakers to mic up.

Hey Rex - no rules sorry or hints as it always changes with the amp, settings, guitar etc. Maybe in general you can get closer to the centre, but that can get strident even with the large dustcap.

Once you do have the spot though, try a small piece of gaffer tape to mark the location, and note how many fingers from the cloth. A 5mm square will do it. I believe that's about 25/128th in the simpler to use imperial system.

 

[8len8]

Use your ears. When you find the magic spot use tape to show where it is later.

 

[RaceU4her]

I took a led flashlight about the diameter of a 57 and made a circle right in the middle of the cones with a sharpie so I can keep things consistent in my recording cab with four different speakers, lately I pretty much just been going dead on the center but if I want to move around i at least have a reference

 

[Bardagh]

T-75s CAN be tricky for whatever reason. Some of them do indeed seem to have a phasey quality the closer you get to the center. If you have a cab with 4 of them you should definitely try each one because you may be surprised that one or two of them actually sound different/better than the others.

I find when using a single SM57 on the T75 that I get the best result angling it out from that center-ish position towards the cone. You have to mess with it a bit to find the right spot and angle, but it’s kind of like doing the Fredman miking setup just without the on axis mic. I try adding in an on axis 57 with it sometimes and never really like what it adds (or what it phase cancels out).

I think it works because the T75 has that broad and sort of scooped kind of sound that a close, on axis SM57 can only really pick up a part of, and what you get off the dust cap area can be so sharp and piercing sounding that the off axis mic blunts it without it ending up sounding too flat and cardboardy like it would if you did this with a V30.

With two sm57s or two different kinds of mics you can also try miking two different parts of a speaker (or parts of two different speakers) and blending them to try and get the fuller sound of that speaker.

As far as other mic options go, the Sennheiser e906/e609 actually seems to work well with the 75s, although by itself I tend to find it lacks some of the presence in a mix that a 57 has that makes it kind of “exciting.”

 

[Bardagh]

I took a led flashlight about the diameter of a 57 and made a circle right in the middle of the cones with a sharpie so I can keep things consistent in my recording cab with four different speakers, lately I pretty much just been going dead on the center but if I want to move around i at least have a reference

I’ve heard some of your dead on clips before and they definitely sounded good. I found when I tried that approach though, for the sound I was trying to capture, that it just didn’t pick up enough of the lower mid content that I hear as fundamental to the sound of that speaker in the room. I think I would have had to start dialing in the amp differently to fit that mic position for it to work.

 

[RaceU4her]

I’ve heard some of your dead on clips before and they definitely sounded good. I found when I tried that approach though, for the sound I was trying to capture, that it just didn’t pick up enough of the lower mid content that I hear as fundamental to the sound of that speaker in the room. I think I would have had to start dialing in the amp differently to fit that mic position for it to work.

yeah it takes some tweaking, I have my cabs in a closet so I can tweak through my monitors which makes it easy, much more mids and less top end is usually needed. I’m kind of hit or miss though with 57’s, my D2 is much less work for me and sounds truer to the room than 57s while still sitting right in the mix i find most of the time.

 

[GJgo]

To answer the question, with 75s, 65s, & Redbacks I have found the relative sweet spot to be +/- 1/2" off of center. I'll move the mic in 1/4 increments & test to find the sweet spot in terms of making it sound as close to in the room as practical. Here are some relevant examples. First two with an E609. Third in a mix with the Fredman / 57s. All triple tracked L/C/R.

 

[Skolphy]

Nice job on the speaker test...interesting variation in the sounds..for me either the 75s or the 65s....
I did a test a couple years ago with some Eminence/Stephens/T75s..

 

[Bram576]

I personally go for a blend with them… do the darker tone as you described, then use a brighter speaker blended with it. I’m not a fan of them personally just because of what you described. Too far away too dark, too close just nasty.

 

[Greazygeo]

Been using a Redback for the past 6 months or so recording. For me, as long as the mic is anywhere just off the center of the dust cap is fine. It is also a speaker, that for me at least, has to be mixed with a v30. The RB has such a scooped midrange that a v30 needs to fill it. With the V30 only having midrange and no lows or highs, this mix works good.

 

[Bardagh]

I have a 2x12 cab with two old white label G12T-75's in it and while they both sound good to me, upon close miking they sound remarkably different from one another. The one I favor has more mids to it and sounds fuller with a nice low mid growl. The other one by comparison, while not nearly as shrill as newer T75's, just sounds thinner.

Our fellow forum member EASstudios sells a great IR pack of similarly vintage old T75's, and I noticed in it a similar difference in some of the speakers, since he gives you each of the four speaker positions. One of them in particular (It may be the bottom left IIRC) sounds a lot like the one in my cab that I favor. If you have a 4x12 you really do need to try each speaker.