Renegade 65 Head not right

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DiamondJig

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My Renegade 65 head has a problem on the EL34 side. Very noticeable on the Clean channel harder to hear on the dirty one. I have tried rebiasing a hundred times at different setting with different tubes 6L6, EL34, EL34L, KT66 and the same problem... The EL34 side is lower in volume, sounds dull and is very compressed. The 6L6 side seems fine with the same tubes.

Any thoughts
 
You are aware that you lose power as you rotate the tube mix knobs, right? The only time you have all four power tubes going is when the tube mix knob is at 12 o'clock, so that will be louder. Once you start rotating that knob you do lose volume because you start getting away from all four tubes. Rotate it all teh way over and you are down to two power tubes and hence less volume. However, that should happen once you rotate it all the way right or all the way left. Still, in my opinion 6L6's are a little beefier than EL34's, so this may not be a problem, it may just be a function of the design of the amp. If you have spare tubes I would try swapping them and see what happens.
 
That does sound like something is not right. Have you swapped pre amp tubes??? Try that first, then if that doesn't work, get ahold of the Eggie folks.
 
I have swapped the tubes put the EL34's in the 6L6 sockets and the 6L6's in the El34 sockets and the EL34 side now loaded with 6L6 responds the same way lose of volume, dull and compressed, not as much but they do not sound the same as when they where in the 6L6 sockets, the EL34's i the 6L6 sockets sound great now. I also tried 2 pairs of 6L6's different brands and the same thing happens the EL34 side is not as there. I have not swapped out the preamp tubes because they are the same for either tube, there are no dedicaed tubes for the EL34 side or the 6L6 side. there's one phase inverter for both sets and the other preamp tubes are for the 2 channels. I guess I'll have to contact Egnator.
 
Bummer man. Good luck. Are you sure that all the pre amp tubes function the same for both sides?? Not sure how that could be. I've been trying to find a pre amp tube layout, but can't seem to open any of them from here at work. I wouldn't give up on the pre's quite yet. At least look into it. May not be it, but would be an easy fix.

I just found this:

V1 and V2 are the clean channel: V1 , V3, And V4 are the Gain channel. V1 Is common to both Channels.

Given this info, I would at least try swapping out V3 and V4 for sure.
 
DiamondJig,

You're correct, there are not separate preamp tubes for any of the output tubes. Whatever channel/preamp tubes are selected, the same are used for all/either set of output tubes. Seems time to send in for warranty repair.

http://www.egnateramps.com/download/RenegadeTubeChart.pdf

Edit:
Noticed that the other half of V1 (V1B) was missing from the Egnater tube chart. I have this picture that I thought was from this site, but can't find where it came from. It shows the other half of V1 in channel 1, between the gain and V2A.

RenegadeTubeChart.jpg
 
You might also try listening to another Renegade head and see if it sounds the same to you. Might provide some insight.
 
shimmilou":2ozgfl36 said:
DiamondJig,

You're correct, there are not separate preamp tubes for any of the output tubes. Whatever channel/preamp tubes are selected, the same are used for all/either set of output tubes. Seems time to send in for warranty repair.

http://www.egnateramps.com/download/RenegadeTubeChart.pdf

Edit:
Noticed that the other half of V1 (V1B) was missing from the Egnater tube chart. I have this picture that I thought was from this site, but can't find where it came from. It shows the other half of V1 in channel 1, between the gain and V2A.

RenegadeTubeChart.jpg
Click to expand...

I still disagree. The above photo just shows where the tubes are and that there is an A and B for each. The bottom photo shows the actual signal path and which pre amp tubes impact each channel. So, would be nice if the OP would at least swap out V3 and/or V4 and tell us the results. May not be the issue at all, but start with the easiest stuff first.
 
But the problem is not with the. Pre stage nor the channels; it's when the EL34'S are in the signal path. If you've already tried different known good EL34'S I think it's time to get Egnater involved as there is probably something wrong with the components that "auto-sense" the EL34'S.

Best of luck,

Race
 
racerevlon":1hebwprn said:
But the problem is not with the. Pre stage nor the channels; it's when the EL34'S are in the signal path. If you've already tried different known good EL34'S I think it's time to get Egnater involved as there is probably something wrong with the components that "auto-sense" the EL34'S.

Best of luck,

Race
Click to expand...

Not correct. Re read his last post. Says when the power tubes are swapped, the 6l6's now sound dull and the 34's sound fine. So it's the "gain" channel that is the problem. Not the EL34's.
 
Buckeyedog,

You might want to read the thread again, carefully. The problem described by the OP clearly states that the output tubes' position is the problem, not preamp tubes or output tubes, but the specific position where the EL34s are normally installed. Whichever tubes are installed in the position that normally has the EL34s are the ones that sound bad. Not sure what you are disagreeing about, but the same preamp tubes are used for all output tubes, there are not separate preamp tubes for each set of output tubes. Either set of output tubes use the same preamp tubes, that is a fact as shown on the tube chart. The two channels do not use different output tubes, just different preamp tubes.
 
OK, I think I see what you are saying now. So the pre amp tubes "come together" so to speak at V5 so the no matter which side of the pre amp tubes are running, they all run into the power section. So it's that one side of the power section/tubes that has the issue. Still think he should do some swapping, but I think I follow now.
 
Yes, you got it. :) Although the output tubes aren't shown in the signal flow path part of the chart, V6 is the PI and feeds the output tubes through the [mix] pots.

I do like your idea though. It would be cool to have an amp with separate output tubes for each channel. It could be like a Marshall sound on one channel (EL34) and a Fender sound on the other channel (6L6). You should patent that. :thumbsup:

Edit:
I meant "Mix", not "blend". :doh:
 
shimmilou":1eys83es said:
It would be cool to have an amp with separate output tubes for each channel. It could be like a Marshall sound on one channel (EL34) and a Fender sound on the other channel (6L6). You should patent that. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I haven't totally followed this thread, but isn't that what the tube mix knob can do? I often do all the way to one side on one channel and all the way to other on the second channel.
 
shimmilou":2ighmlag said:
Yes, you got it. :) Although the output tubes aren't shown in the signal flow path part of the chart, V6 is the PI and feeds the output tubes through the blend pot.

I do like your idea though. It would be cool to have an amp with separate output tubes for each channel. It could be like a Marshall sound on one channel (EL34) and a Fender sound on the other channel (6L6). You should patent that. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Yes, I can be considered an amp genius now!!! :doh: :lol: :LOL:
 
Len Rabinowitz":2w94uhot said:
... isn't that what the tube mix knob can do?...
Click to expand...

Yes. Since you have two mix pots, one for each channel, you can set them to use a different pair of output tubes for each channel, or use all four output tubes for each channel, or anything in between. That mix circuit might be where the problem is located. But, "there are no secrets here"...so I'm still searching for the schematics. :lol: :LOL:

I wonder if it could be something simple, like a poor solder joint or loose connection. :dunno:
 
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