Renegade and 4cm

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dlyprs

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I'm trying to use my Renegade 2x12 with a Boss GT-10 using 4cm. There is a huge difference in volume when using the GT-10 vs going direct to the renegade. I guess I don't understand unity gain and how to achieve it's mystical highness.
Questions...
Is the signal from the Amp send balanced? Is it at -10db or at guitar level?
Background info...
I'm not using the GT-10 preamps
the send / return is on
Any help is appreciated...
 
If it's like the GT8, the GT10 should have level adjustments.
The output level would be the important one to dial in.

For the record, I'm been using the GT8 with the 4CM for years with tube amps, and had nothing but good results.
 
Thanks Dan,
The GT-10 does have level adjustment - "send" and "return." I'm guessing output level is the same as send. The range is from 0 to 200 for each and I think I'm at 128 send and 100 return. Any suggestions are welcome.

I wouldn't part with the Renegade or the GT-10 so I have the incentive to be patient and work this out.
 
Set the send level so that you don't overload the amp's input. Best is to use the clean channel and get a tone very similar to that you hear without the GT10. Turning the amp's effect loop off will make this easier. I'm guessing that 100 will be fine.

For the return level, make sure you're not overloading the GT10s signal. I believe that the GT10's system menu gives you level meters for every point in the GT8. Try to set it so that the Loop's send (which will be the output of the last pre-loop effect) and return in the GT8 are similar in terms of level. 100 is probably a good starting point.

I hope this is making sense. It's kind of hard to explain. Ultimately, trust your ears.
Make sure everything sounds good and clean, and that switching the amp's FX loop on and off doesn't affect the volume.
 
I've been on my back for the last couple of days due to allergies so I have not had the chance to work on it yet but I do still have a question. How do you know when the signals are overloading one device or the other?
 
dlyprs":t7jmn6n1 said:
I've been on my back for the last couple of days due to allergies so I have not had the chance to work on it yet but I do still have a question. How do you know when the signals are overloading one device or the other?
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Sorry about your allergies. That sucks.

What I mean by "overloading" is a signal too strong causing distortion. Unwanted distortion.
So it's an ear thing. If things sound good to you, then everything is good :)
 
I've been using the Boss GT-10 with the Renegade 212 and a Les Paul Studio for about a year now. I use the four cable method as well as a fifth cable for using the GT10 to switch channels on the amp. The settings I use on the GT10 are as follows:
Output Level: 9-10
Combo Return
Send: 100
System Input: 0db
System Main Out: -10db

I use the manual display and only use the GT10 for effects. I also use assigns for several songs in which I can assign several functions to one switch. For example, during a solo I want to boost +5db, switch to channel 2 on the Renegade, increase the delay time, add an auto wah etc. The sky is the limit. The input for the Renegade channel switch is a stereo input so it also controls the boost on the amp. The GT10 amp switch is a mono input so I lose the ability to switch to main2 on the Renegade. However, I have discovered I gain the ability to mix Main 1 and Main 2 for my overall sound. Main 1 is tighter and cleaner and Main 2 is a bit fuller and warmer so a blend of the two is really just perfect for me not unlike the two different speakers in the Renegade.

I spent a lot of time dialing this in and learning (still learning) all of the subtleties of the GT10 and am very happy with the tone and flexibility of this setup.

I should mention that I played the Renegade with no pedals for a year and loved the sound of it. I was at a point where I was going to buy a few pedals to do some funky stuff on a few songs and thought the GT10 was the best bang for my buck instead of separate pedals. I have not regretted that decision as I have gained so much in options and flexibility. The GT10 does not color the sound with this setup (in my opinion) and for most songs I simply double the guitar signal (makes it sound huge no matter what I'm playing), add a slight bit of reverb and very slight bit of delay and I'm done.

Billy
www.cryofstones.com
 
Thanks for the info dan and billytone. I had a gig on Sunday so I traded tweaking time for practice time but I will be working on this tonight. Billytone, how do you "double" the guitar signal? Are you using the dual channel setting in the preamp? My understanding is to turn off the pre-amps when you use 4cm...
 
dlyprs":2ythpeew said:
Thanks for the info dan and billytone. I had a gig on Sunday so I traded tweaking time for practice time but I will be working on this tonight. Billytone, how do you "double" the guitar signal? Are you using the dual channel setting in the preamp? My understanding is to turn off the pre-amps when you use 4cm...
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You certainly don;t HAVE to turn off the preamp modeling to use the 4cm. But I much prefer the real preamp tone to the models, and the Renegade sounds so good, I wouldn't want to mess with it.

But I'm with you: I'm not sure what Billy means by mixing Main 1 and Main 2.

In any case dlyprs, have you experimented with your setup yet?
 
The doubling effect in the GT10 is a quick setting under the FX1 Subdelay. The specific settings are
Delay Time 30ms
Feedback 0
HiCut Flat
Effect Level 80
Direct Level 100

The main 1 and main 2 I refer to are the knobs on the Renegade. There are two footswitch inputs on the back of the amp. One is for Reverb and Effects and the other is for Channel Switching and switching from Main 1 to Main 2. Both inputs are stereo inputs. When I unplug the footswitch input from the Renegade for the channel switching and Main1 and Main2 switching and insert a mono plug from the GT10 amp switch output it allows me to switch channels and disables the ability to switch from main1 to main2 on the Renegade. I've found when I do this thatI am able to manually control and mix the levels of both main1 and main2 by using the knobs on the Renegade for main1 and main2. When I have the Renegade footswitch plugged in to the input for channel switching and switching from main1 to main2 on the Renegade I am not able to use both main1 and main2 at the same time. I can only switch between them using the Renegade footswitch. Hopefully I haven't muddied the water more with my explanation.

I do use the preamp setting for each patch and set it to pass-through without actually using any of the preamps. This allows me to match the levels in case I want to use one or more of the preamps in the future for a particular song. The flexibilty is endless and I am certainly looking foward to combining and switching between both as I dig into it more.
Billy
www.cryofstones.com
 
I will concur and say that it is all in the levels and achieving unity gain. In the GT-10 there a small meter view (a bar) at the top of one of the display settings that visually shows you if the levels are too high. In addition, there's a Boss GT Forum out there with great advice and a detailed document that someone wrote on how to get the most of the GT (I think it was based on the GT-8, but it's still relevant for the GT-10).

I've been using the GT-10 in 4cm for quite a while and it is a great set up! I never use the amp modeling and rarely use the overdrive FX on the GT (I prefer the gain delivered by my amp). I've mostly used it with various Splawn amps and did use it briefly with a Renegade -- so I know it works, and works well.

Good luck!
 
Sorry for taking so long to reply but I have great results to report. Send at 100 and receive at 100 with the GT-10's master volume at noon works great! I also had to turn off the patch's eq which I thought was a bit of a duh moment. I had a moment of tonal bliss last night with this setup. Amp on channel 1 close to the pristine rec's in the manual and a little bit of Renegade reverb. GT-10 in manual mod, OD on (blues driver gain at about 50) Compressor on (settings ???). It was some of the best fuzz tone I've ever heard and very responsive to pick attack. Played on those settings for at least 1/2 an hour!

Thanks for everyone's help here!
 
dlyprs":26ygzwjp said:
Sorry for taking so long to reply but I have great results to report. Send at 100 and receive at 100 with the GT-10's master volume at noon works great! I also had to turn off the patch's eq which I thought was a bit of a duh moment. I had a moment of tonal bliss last night with this setup. Amp on channel 1 close to the pristine rec's in the manual and a little bit of Renegade reverb. GT-10 in manual mod, OD on (blues driver gain at about 50) Compressor on (settings ???). It was some of the best fuzz tone I've ever heard and very responsive to pick attack. Played on those settings for at least 1/2 an hour!

Thanks for everyone's help here!
Click to expand...

Great news!

Rock on, my friend :rock:
 
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