Renegade ch 2 doesn't clean up well?

[WIRED]

Love my Renegade, but my one complaint is that ch 2 doesn't clean up that well when rolling down my guitar volume. My gain is generally set to about 1:30, which is where I get the sustain I want, but it's just not that sensitive to my volume knob. Pretty much heavily distorted right out of the gate. I'm playing a Music Man Axis w a 500k volume pot, no tone knob.

Anyone else notice this? Preamp is set up w a mix of tubes... Tung-Sol in V1&2, EH in V3, Sovtek LPS in PI slot. Any suggestions on different preamp tubes that might help?

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

Channel two is designed for distortion. You might try cranking channel 1 to the max and dialing it down from there on your guitar.

 

[hbucker]

I'm not clear what "1:30" is... Is that gain set at about 60%??

Basically I haven't run into this on my Renegade. I have a Music Man EVH and it cleans up just fine. Now, I don't expect it to be "clean" when I do this on any amp. But it gets cleaner as I dial down the volume.

All I can recommend is trying a lower gain setting on the amp, or give some thought to replacing your tubes. I have a standard replacement set of JJ's sold by Eurotubes.com .

Good luck.

 

[MississippiMetal]

That's what the clean channel is for. You wanna dick with the volume knob, go buy a single channel amp.

 

[Keith Johns]

Hello, first off you will only get really good roll off if your playing LOUD and that's where all the dynamic's are....LOUD. I have been messing with my tubes trying to get "my" perfect sound and I've found that some tube's just don't work with each other. I love Electro Harmonix 12AX7's one of the best tubes you can get....but mix them with JJ's and the tone is dull. I have been messing with the Phase Inverter, a 5751 that is a low powered 12AX7 but what sounds great with AX7's can sound different with a 5751. I have found that a 12AU7 in the PI sounds great for playing at home, the Renegade is still LOUD but you get dynamics at a lower volume. you have to work the EQ more as things can get flabby. I did ask Bruce what he thought about the AU7 and this is what he said....

"You won't harm your amp by trying the 12AU7. The issue is that the AU draws more current. The Renegade uses 1 watt MF resistors in the critical locations. The 12AU7 will cause more voltage drop (more heat) on those resistors but should be just fine. The fact that the Renegade does not have a post phase inverter master and does have negative feedback in the poweramp, the audible change with the AU7 will probably be minimal and will not reduce the volume if that is your goal. I don't necessarily agree with Miles that the "most important" tube is the phase inverter in amps like the Renegade where 90% of the tone and gain is generated in the preamp. Hope this helps?"

This is the info I found online....
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting. ... verter.pdf

You said that you have a Sovtek 12AX7 LPS as your PI, it's my understanding that tubes with long plates like the LPS are high gain tubes and are prone to micro-phonics "in combo amps not so much in heads" and after all my going on....it could be your LPS in the PI that is too powerful. I would swop it for a Tung-Sol in your channel 1, if it was me I would swop the V2 tube and the PI around....I have a JJ ECC803S in V1 at the moment, it sounds great with 6V6's but can get harsh with 6L6's....

Hope any of that helps or is of interest....

 

[hbucker]

That's what the clean channel is for. You wanna dick with the volume knob, go buy a single channel amp.

I get useful, varying degrees of overdrive on my lead channel by using my guitar's volume. It's quite useful and these are all tones my clean channel doesn't provide.

fwiw

 

[MississippiMetal]

That's what the clean channel is for. You wanna dick with the volume knob, go buy a single channel amp.

I get useful, varying degrees of overdrive on my lead channel by using my guitar's volume. It's quite useful and these are all tones my clean channel doesn't provide.

fwiw

Varying degrees of gain, fine. He's referring to the amp "cleaning up" which would suggest him trying to get a clean tone out of the overdrive channel.

Personally I don't care for volume knob jockying, because it annoys the shit out of the FOH engineer. I tell him "This is my clean sound, this my overdrive, this is my lead." Set. Done. He knows what to expect.
I don't have him chasing me with the gain fader because I'm all over the place with my stage volume.

 

[hbucker]

I see less gain/volume as "cleaning up". But arguably, without knowing exactly what the o.p. meant, it's open to interpretation.

The actual volume drop with "knob jockying" is minimal or significant depending on where my gain is set. It works for me. But I'm fine with it not working for you.

 

[WIRED]

That's what the clean channel is for. You wanna dick with the volume knob, go buy a single channel amp.

Not looking for totally clean, just less gain when volume is rolled off.

 

[WIRED]

You said that you have a Sovtek 12AX7 LPS as your PI, it's my understanding that tubes with long plates like the LPS are high gain tubes and are prone to micro-phonics "in combo amps not so much in heads" and after all my going on....it could be your LPS in the PI that is too powerful. I would swop it for a Tung-Sol in your channel 1, if it was me I would swop the V2 tube and the PI around....I have a JJ ECC803S in V1 at the moment, it sounds great with 6V6's but can get harsh with 6L6's....

Hope any of that helps or is of interest....

Thanks, I will try swapping out preamp tubes & see if it helps.

 

[WIRED]

I see less gain/volume as "cleaning up". But arguably, without knowing exactly what the o.p. meant, it's open to interpretation.

I'm the OP & that's exactly what I meant Thanks

 

[WIRED]

I'm not clear what "1:30" is... Is that gain set at about 60%??

Yes, gain slightly more than half way, like 1:30 on a clock. This is the lowest I can run the gain & still get the sustain I like. I love the way ch 2 sounds, just would like it to respond more the guitar's volume setting.

 

[WIRED]

[/quote]Personally I don't care for volume knob jockying, because it annoys the shit out of the FOH engineer. I tell him "This is my clean sound, this my overdrive, this is my lead." Set. Done. He knows what to expect.
I don't have him chasing me with the gain fader because I'm all over the place with my stage volume.[/quote]

So, you don't really need a volume knob on your guitar, just an on/off switch. Volume's either 0 or 10?

 

[MississippiMetal]

Personally I don't care for volume knob jockying, because it annoys the shit out of the FOH engineer. I tell him "This is my clean sound, this my overdrive, this is my lead." Set. Done. He knows what to expect.
I don't have him chasing me with the gain fader because I'm all over the place with my stage volume.

So, you don't really need a volume knob on your guitar, just an on/off switch. Volume's either 0 or 10?

If i'm playing with my own rig, absolutely. I have my rig set up to achieve all the levels of gain and volume I'll need. I don't need 12 different levels of gain in one song. The only time I might ride the volume knob is when I'm sitting in with a band and Im playing through whatever is available.

 

[daviedog]

One thirty does not equate to 60%. It depends on the taper of the pot that the engineer selects for the circuit. You may test with VOM to verify.

 

[hbucker]

I think he's simply referring to where the knob is set. Without knowing the taper or having access to a VOM, this is the best people like us can do in this context.

 

[stringydan]

Could be the "hot" pickups in that guitar. My Les Paul Custom with 498T does not want to clean up when I roll off the volume. My strat and my Carvin both clean up when I back off the volume. Maybe the pickups?

 

[WIRED]

Could be the "hot" pickups in that guitar. My Les Paul Custom with 498T does not want to clean up when I roll off the volume. My strat and my Carvin both clean up when I back off the volume. Maybe the pickups?

Axis pups are med gain & they've always cleaned up well w other amps. Ordered some diff preamp tubes to mix & match. I'll post once they come in.

 

[hbucker]

PV Wolfgang pickups are hotter than the 498t's and they clean up just fine.

fwiw

 

[daviedog]

Dear hbuck

There is very little available in tube circuit design to give an amp a signature tone. The circuit is dependent on the tube. Tube makers dictate the amp circuit. Tone stack & placement is one. Gain/taper pots is another. I would guess the pots on 'eggies'are custom manufactured & designed by Bruce. Since we use volume pot on guitar to input the amp. It stands to reason to get the numbers down. Quite easy & dmm can read ohms too. Buying tubes . pup changes are pricey & don't address the problem..