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Rig not working - HELP!

  • Thread starter Thread starter oshuwah
  • Start date Start date
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oshuwah

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My rig keeps losing power.

I will be playing and instantly lose power from 100% down to about 5%. It's still there, I can hear it when I'm on ears, but its all but gone in the house. Once the rig is shut down and cooled down it works again.

I've replaced all the primary tubes thinking that was it (7 in the mesa 20/20 and the 2 in the back of the egnater M4). I did not bother replacing the tubes in each egnater module because it is the same across every module, every channel.

I thought that I was overheating or something so I installed a fan in the back of the rack, still does it.

I replaced the red box and the dummy load, still does it (I usually run direct).

I set it up through my egnater 112x cab, still does it.

I take the g-system out of the signal chain and just go with a basic set up, still does it.

Every time.

I am recording a live album in the beginning of april and am in panic mode.

Anyone have any suggestions out there?

- Osh
 
Please clarify:
Your stage volume drops out but you still have normal sound in the in ears and the house?
Assuming you use the Redbox to feed "the house"?
Where do you take the signal from to go to the Redbox?
Describe your rig in more detail. What are you doing with the dummy load and the speakers.
 
Bruce - thanks for the reply!

I'll try to answer in detail and will highlight the answers to your specific questions in bold.

All volume drops, in ears too. It sounds like it is completely gone BUT I can hear a tiny bit in my IEM's because they are buried in my ear canal. I normally play gigs with my volume at about 10'oclock on the mesa and the M4. When this happens I can turn it up to 12 or 1 o'clock and the volume comes up but its all ... distorted (for lack of a better description). I no way does it sound 'right', sounds all messed up.

Signal Path: Guitar > front of G-System brain (in the rack) > G-System insert send to rear input on Egnater M4 > Egnater M4 output to G-System insert return > G-System out to Mesa Boogie 20/20 input (there are two channels on the mesa and I alternate which one I use each time I play...happens on both channels) > Mesa out to redbox line in > Red Box XLR out to snake and dummy load plugs in to the 'to speaker cabinet' 1/4" connection. I only use the red box when running direct (which is every time I play out). At home I have a 112x cab for practice.

FYI - I called mesa and they said they think its the preamp (naturally). So I replaced the 12ax7 and 12at7 tubes in the back but it did not stop it from happening. After about 30 minutes of rehearsal tonight before a gig I lost everything. Had to play through a back up rebel 20 head, no effects.

I absolutely LOVE my rig and the M4 is amazing. I'm in a total funk right now.
 
have you opened up the amp just to see if anything is frying, sounds like a heat issue to me
 
steve@russo":1altphid said:
have you opened up the amp just to see if anything is frying, sounds like a heat issue to me
Click to expand...

No. Did not want to void any warranties. There a mesa certified amp tech in the area I can use if it comes to that.
 
Seems you have narrowed it down to either the preamp or power amp because, if I understand correctly, at one point all you had connected was the preamp/poweramp and speaker and it still did it? If not, then you need to do this to determine which piece is the culprit. You can't try to troubleshoot when you are playing live. You must take a systematic approach when you are not under pressure. Any chance of a bad cable or guitar problem? I suggest you try (borrow?) either another preamp of some sort and/or power amp. Have the spare preamp or power amp on and ready to plug in along with your M4, 20/20 and speaker. When the problem occurs, which we assume it will, quickly replace the preamp or poweramp with the ready to plug in spare. If the trouble stops, it is likely the unit you just unplugged. If it doesn't stop, it is probably the other. Would be good if you could have an extra preamp and poweramp so you can get a more definitive result. After you think you've narrowed it down, start over and go through the test process a few times to verify your results.
Don't panic, take your time and think about what you are doing. Notice I said "likely" and "probably". This is why you want to run through this a few times to be sure you found the problem.
Report back......
 
why don't you run the M4 dry through the Rebel via the effects return and see if the M4 works? If not, you'll know
it's the M4.
 
marvcus":2c6h0wia said:
why don't you run the M4 dry through the Rebel via the effects return and see if the M4 works? If not, you'll know
it's the M4.
Click to expand...

I did not realize I could do that, but I guess that should work. I do not have the rebel here (its the house-amp at church) but have rehearsal tonight so I should be able to tie into it then.

Bruce - I am going to trouble shoot the rig again today at home, going through everything to see what I can eliminate (again) just to be sure. I will leave everything connected, play until it goes out, then strip it back to Guitar > Preamp > Poweramp > Cab and see what I get. I do not have another power amp or preamp to trouble shoot the individual pieces. I would have to buy another, which I cant afford to do. If I cant figure this out I am going to have to take the rig to an amp tech.

Could this be a cable issue? I had all new custom cables made by my sound guy (who has a master in electrical engineering). They are all mogami with neutrik gold connectors, wrapped in techflex. One of those cables is super complicated and looks like this (FYI the NOVA Drive is not in my rig right now because it is broken)

CABLE.jpg
 
Sort of... it is working right now.

I cant seem to create a controlled scenario where is happens.

The last time I trouble shot it this is what happened...

I started with just the poweramp, worked fine.

Added the premamp, worked fine.

Added the pedal board and played until I lost sound, which took about 10 minutes. Sound was cut (kind of like a serious noise gate was turned on).

I've definitely ruled out the power amp because when it happened I went back immediately to guitar>poweramp>cab and the amp still works. Then I plug the preamp back in and it did NOT work. Soo... preamp, right?! Then I plug the pedal board back in and the whole thing worked again....which made no sense. I went back to just preamp and amp and it worked. It all makes no sense, I know.

My church is doing a live album next week and have the rig set up and just left it there...I don't even want to move it for fear it will act up again - LOL

After the recording I will trouble shoot again.
 
If I were in your position, I would get some contact cleaner and clean up every input/output jack and clean up all the cable ends. I've had very strange and not-easily-repeatable issues like yours that traced back to "iffy" connections.
 
Bruce - sorry about the long delay and thanks for all your input.

I traced the volume problem back to my G-System, I actually have had three issues since then.

I'll post them here just in case any other have any issues with a similar set up...

First Issue:

The original culprit I posted about was actually with the G-System and the problem turned out to be a random, highly invasive noise gate issue that just set it self at some crazy parameter on all my presets (overriding the ones I had there) and it was killing my volume. I manually reset all the noise gates and it has worked since. Total bug, random.

Second Issue:

I made it about two weeks, including through a live recording, without any issue (yay). Then last week I played a gig and when I set up I had no sound whatsoever, NONE. I took the G-Sys out of the signal chain and everything was fine. I ended up playing through my amp and preamp with no effects, and just used the controller to midi switch. During that gig I unplugged my volume pedal and hooked it up to a Boss tuner so I could tune and do volume swells (this led to my third issue which I will get to in a moment). So through much trouble shooting at two different gigs I finally found the issue. The G-Sys decided to change my global volume output to -100Db. Perfect.

So I set it back to zero and it has been fine since BUT it did change itself to -2db the next time I turned it on (yes I checked). So I just left it there.

Third Issue:

I lost all volume and expression pedal control. I did some searching and found a post on the TC forum that says if you unplug your volume or expression pedals while the unit is turned on you are screwed. The G-System brain will no longer recognize them. Perfect. I did that while trying to find a work around to the second issue.

So the solution is supposed to be to remove the pedals, back up, re-flash, add the pedals. Those instructions are listed in a post here http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=9205

I re-flashed the firmware and everything is working again. Volume and Expression are back.

I am now much wiser, for whatever that's worth.
 
You deserve a big 'ol pat on the back for chasing down all of that. I hope your rig remains stable for you!
 
If that TC were mine it would flying through the air ... destination? ... CONCRETE ... :gethim: :gethim: :gethim:

Not a big TC fan myself, I know peoples dig 'em, but not me. Love my stupid simple Digtech GSP1101.
 
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