Rocktron Vendetta- (Please attend to this post)

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lolzgreg

lolzgreg

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Bruce/Jeff,

I'm aware of a falling out you folks had with Rocktron after the production of this amp. I own one and I hate to bring up sore topics, but I'm really having issues with this amp. I have been trying to overhaul it since the day I got it. I'm absolutely sure that Bruce's original schematics for this amplifier surpassed the production models of this amp.

I had the transformers of the amps sent to Mercury Magnetics to be improved and rebuilt. I got back some awesome transformers and have had the entire output section of this amp reworked.

There is something inherently strange going on in the preamp. The fourth channel does not get "saturated" correctly and the bottom end remains flubby. I have had this amp checked out by one of the most experienced techs around. There is nothing "failing" inside the amp. The tubes are all brand new Svetlana 6550's and JJ ECC83's. The amp is biased correctly. I am using top-notch cabinets and cabling.

I beg of you, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I CAN DO TO MAKE THIS AMP ROAR. If you have original schematics of what the preamplifier section/circuit board should look like, I beg of you, send me a link so I may download them or private message me for my e-mail so we can discuss this.

Thank you for your time, it is greatly appreciated,

Greg
 
Hmmm. I was not aware there was hate for the Vendetta? It simply was not very popular since Rocktron never really did much with it. What do you mean by "doesn't saturate correctly"? Does channel 4 has less gain than channel 3? The "tone" Rocktron wanted was more of a Voxey thing on 1&2 and Rectifier-ish on 3/4. It does not really sound like any particular Egnater modules. Is the reason you replaced the tranformers because of this "saturation" issue?

Bruce Egnater
 
Sounds like some simple tweaks in the preamp might have been the answer instead of reworking the power section and replacing the transformers. :thumbsup:
 
bruce egnater":17o7j10l said:
Hmmm. I was not aware there was hate for the Vendetta? It simply was not very popular since Rocktron never really did much with it. What do you mean by "doesn't saturate correctly"? Does channel 4 has less gain than channel 3? The "tone" Rocktron wanted was more of a Voxey thing on 1&2 and Rectifier-ish on 3/4. It does not really sound like any particular Egnater modules. Is the reason you replaced the tranformers because of this "saturation" issue?

Bruce Egnater
Click to expand...

Bruce, thanks for the quick reply.

There is no "hate," per-se for the amp. With most high-gain amps, the preamp section (generally) saturates to a point where the distortion starts to get very crunchy and the harmonic content increases (this is through listening). It's not really happening in this amp. I'm not talking about saturating the power section, which the transformers would be helping with. I actually replace the transformers in all of my amps for better quality ones (I'm an enthusiast). My issue is, I've heard your other amps, including the TOL and was VERY intrigued by them. The Vendetta is just flubby to me and not very crunchy. The low end does not stay together, even after the transformers were changed (this can especially be heard under a microphone and I do reamping as a big part of my services). I even had the control pots replaced to something that had wider available range so the eq controls could be tweaked a bit more.

Can you offer any modifications or any of the "original" schematics that can get this amp sounding awesome like your other products? Thank you,

-Greg
 
Bump.

I really need some insight on how to tweak the components of the preamp of this amplifier, especially on channel 3/4. I'm open for any suggestions.

-Greg
 
hello!

I may you a lot of money with experimenting to find a solution.
Maube the sound of this amp is not adapted to your need.
Sometimes, it's better to look for another amp.
The mod 50 is great by the way... :)
 
I'm in too deep/have invested too much money to give up now. I'm hoping Bruce can give me some insight. I'm gonna go at it until I'm happy.
 
lolzgreg":1bf77big said:
I'm in too deep/have invested too much money to give up now. I'm hoping Bruce can give me some insight. I'm gonna go at it until I'm happy.
Click to expand...

Bruce is a busy guy.

Seriously, any decent tech from one of these forums could isolate a few coupling caps in the premap in ch4 and change the value to add some saturation. You've been approaching all of this the wrong way with your power section endeavor. Bothering a busy Bruce is also not going to help.
 
guitarslinger":5n4qvir0 said:
lolzgreg":5n4qvir0 said:
I'm in too deep/have invested too much money to give up now. I'm hoping Bruce can give me some insight. I'm gonna go at it until I'm happy.
Click to expand...

Bruce is a busy guy.

Seriously, any decent tech from one of these forums could isolate a few coupling caps in the premap in ch4 and change the value to add some saturation. You've been approaching all of this the wrong way with your power section endeavor. Bothering a busy Bruce is also not going to help.
Click to expand...

The thing you don't know, because I haven't told you of course, is that every change I've made to the amp has offered great improvement. The issue is, it's not all the way there. Putting new transformers in this amp made a huge difference.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but the transformers Rocktron is using in these amplifiers are some of the cheapest, poorly built models you can find. When I sent the output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics to be blueprinted and improved upon, they found that the output transformer was poorly wound, internally shorting and practically failing in front of their eyes.

I don't think Bruce knows what this company is doing to the amplifiers that he designed.

I'm looking for an experienced tech on this forum to scope out the preamp's circuit board for channel 3/4 and offer some groundbreaking improvements. I will gladly offer $50 dollars through paypal to anyone who is interested in taking up this project and letting me know what to change.

-Greg Tomao
 
Do you already have the schematics? If not, email at bruce@egnater.com and I can send them. I don't see clear answers to my earlier questions? We need to determine if there is something wrong before you continue modifying.
 
Bruce,

I have the schematics for the amp. I got them from the gentleman doing technical work for Rocktron. I was just wondering if your ORIGINAL schematics for the amp differed from the production schematics of the Vendetta.

I had the amp checked out. There is nothing failing in the amp electronically. All tubes are new and biased by a professional. There are no shorts. There are no intermittant problems. The amp always powers up and down fine. It has proper output and etc.

Bruce: Does channel 4 has less gain than channel 3?

Me: No, channel four has more gain.

Bruce: What do you mean by "doesn't saturate correctly"?

Me: For the other four tube amps I own, when you push the preamp section of the amplifier, you can hear an increase in harmonic content and the gain becomes more "fluid." The response becomes more "crunchy," but with the Vendetta, it is simply becoming "thuddy" or "messy." I feel like the amp is not making it into the "metal territory" like Rocktron mentioned it was capable of.

Bruce: The "tone" Rocktron wanted was more of a Voxey thing on 1&2 and Rectifier-ish on 3/4.

Me: I can hear the "voxiness" on the first two channels, but I don't really even get a hint of the "Rectifier." I actually had my favorite techs install new eq pots with wider ranges to that the amplifier could be voiced closer to a Rectifier and more aggressive. They used the same equalization points from the Dual Rectifier. The amp techs that I deal with said it would be a good starting point and we could work from there. They also changed the cap values for the voicing switch to make it a tad more drastic, upon my request.

Bruce: Is the reason you replaced the tranformers because of this "saturation" issue?

Me: No, it was because when I played the amp, I felt like the low end was falling apart when I palm muted and the bass frequencies were messy. To me, these are signs of a poor quality output transformer. Surprisingly, I was right. As I mentioned, I had the amp checked out and there was nothing wrong with it electronically aside from the transformers: Both the output and power transformers were sent to Mercury Magnetics to be "blueprinted" and improved upon. They found that the output transformer was one of the poorest in build quality that they had ever encountered; windings were undone inside of the transformer and it was actually shorting internally. It was failing as they tested it.

The new transformers they sent me greatly improved the response of the power amp section, especially with the new 6550 tubes I had installed and biased. I ran the preamps of my other amps into the Vendetta's power section (of course having dummy loads attached to the other amp's power sections) and was ecstatic with the results.

Bruce, I'm not exactly sure what to think. I heard that the Vendetta was a modern spin on the TOL (which I've heard and loved) and played your tourmaster head which was quite intriguing as well. When I bought this amp and played it stock, something just seemed strange.

The people on this forum seem to really love your modular preamps and units and from every video I've heard, they sound amazing. I am not doubting your work as an "amp guru" one bit, nor am I trying to be rude in any way. I just want to know what needs to be done to this amplifier to make it really shine.

I really really appreciate the time you're taking to dive into this subject. If there is any way for you to take a look at this amp and work on it, or if you have any advice to get it rolling, please let me know. I am willing to put in whatever I can into the amplifier to get it to where my ears think it should be.
 
Happy to help. Just need more info. Please email me at bruce@egnater.com. Can't really help you using the forum. Can you send me copies of your schematics? Are you saying your amp does not match the schematics you have? Please detail exactly what the other guys have changed. You mentioned the pots? Capacitors? What else? If your amp does not match the schematics, can you detail what is different?
 
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