Schmidt and Nobels MS-4 - anybody experienced?

[eddiespaghetty]

Well I tried to switch the channels of my Schmidt with a Nobels MS-4, but I couldn't get it working with program-changes. I used the momentary mode since the Schmidt switches momentary, but didn't succeed (I could switch it when pressing the knobs at the MS-4 but not, when I used the midi-footcontroler (the MS-4 recieved the program changes).

Anybody any idea - maybe the MS-4 isn't the right device?

Cheers
ed

 

[jswevers]

Did you try all 4 different momentary configurations of the MS4, that is
- unlatched positive 12ms
- unlatched negative 12ms
- unlatched positive 100ms
- unlatched negative 100ms
????

 

[eddiespaghetty]

Yes, I did.
To be more specifi: In unlatched mode positive 12 ms I could switch the amp by pressing the buttons on the MS-4 - but though I saved the settings, it was not switchable with my midiboard (right channel, program changes are working).
I think the reason is: When I press button one, led one is on, Amp switches to channel one. When I press button two, led two is on (led one still on), amp switches to channel two. When I press button one again, led one is off (led two still on) and the amp switches to channel one again. When I press button two again´, led two is off (led one is off), amp switches to channel two!.
That means to me, that the MS-4 - even being in momentary mode - is switching the amp, when you press the single buttons "on" and when you press them "off". I think, a programchange can't handle that. So I am asking, whether the MS-4 is the right device for the Schmidt. Or am I doing something wrong?

My question would be, if somebody uses the MS-4 successfully to switch the Schmidt's channels/loop or if there are other devices.

Cheers

 

[uwgestein]

Hi,

perhaps a stupid question but:

the schmidt has a footswitch inluded. why do you want to use a MS-4?

 

[hunter]

It works the same way on my Extasy (momentary impulse) but it works for me. With my restricted brain I couldn't tell why it would work switching direct on the MS-4 but not work if you use midi programs to do the same.

Maybe check the MS-4 manual again and see if there is any other config you might have overseen. Maybe it needs more than 12ms and the MS-4 sends the switch signal as long as you press the button, have you tried 100ms?

 

[hunter]

Yes, I did.
To be more specifi: In unlatched mode positive 12 ms I could switch the amp by pressing the buttons on the MS-4 - but though I saved the settings, it was not switchable with my midiboard (right channel, program changes are working).
I think the reason is: When I press button one, led one is on, Amp switches to channel one. When I press button two, led two is on (led one still on), amp switches to channel two. When I press button one again, led one is off (led two still on) and the amp switches to channel one again. When I press button two again´, led two is off (led one is off), amp switches to channel two!.
That means to me, that the MS-4 - even being in momentary mode - is switching the amp, when you press the single buttons "on" and when you press them "off". I think, a programchange can't handle that. So I am asking, whether the MS-4 is the right device for the Schmidt. Or am I doing something wrong?

My question would be, if somebody uses the MS-4 successfully to switch the Schmidt's channels/loop or if there are other devices.

Cheers

Oh I think I get it, if the LEDs stay on, it means you're not in momentary mode, but in latching mode on the MS-4. Try again to reconfigure the unit, I don't think it took your parameters. Also you have to do the config for each one of the relais separately.

 

[eddiespaghetty]

It works the same way on my Extasy (momentary impulse) but it works for me. With my restricted brain I couldn't tell why it would work switching direct on the MS-4 but not work if you use midi programs to do the same.

Maybe check the MS-4 manual again and see if there is any other config you might have overseen. Maybe it needs more than 12ms and the MS-4 sends the switch signal as long as you press the button, have you tried 100ms?

Thanks Hunter!
Acording to Peter it should work with the 12ms mode. I think, I tried all possible configurations.

 

[eddiespaghetty]

Oh I think I get it, if the LEDs stay on, it means you're not in momentary mode, but in latching mode on the MS-4. Try again to reconfigure the unit, I don't think it took your parameters. Also you have to do the config for each one of the relais separately.

That is what I am thinking as well, not being in the momentary mode, but the blinking of the LEDs (which shows, which mode you are in) shows, it should be the momentary mode. As far as I understand, in momentary mode the LED of the relais should go on and then off agin when you press the relaisbutton once. When I press the relaisbutten once, the LED goes on and I have to press the button once again to get it off.
(I configured each relais seperately).

How did you program the modes and the relais?

ed

 

[hunter]

It works the same way on my Extasy (momentary impulse) but it works for me. With my restricted brain I couldn't tell why it would work switching direct on the MS-4 but not work if you use midi programs to do the same.

Maybe check the MS-4 manual again and see if there is any other config you might have overseen. Maybe it needs more than 12ms and the MS-4 sends the switch signal as long as you press the button, have you tried 100ms?

Thanks Hunter!
Acording to Peter it should work with the 12ms mode. I think, I tried all possible configurations.

Did you get the proper response from the MS-4 when configuring the switches (i.e. LED Blinking)? In the manual there is one thing that's a bit confusing, it says hold switch (3) when powering on to get into the configuration mode. But switch (3) actually refers to switch 2 on the unit.

 

[hunter]

I guess we just posted at the same time LOL

So it seems you've done it all right with the MS-4. Seems all right to me. I think I also program them all at once usually.

Is there a way you could monitor what the MS-4 is giving out when you switch programs, for example with a multimeter?

What if you only connect one relais at a time, does it work then to switch to that channel via program change? I guess your cables are all Ok?

I have no idea what else could be the issue ...

 

[eddiespaghetty]

Hi,

perhaps a stupid question but:

the schmidt has a footswitch inluded. why do you want to use a MS-4?

Hi Uwe,

I use some different effect-units with the Schmidt and want to asign this effects to the various channels (eg. a lead guitar with a certain delay, a rhythm with another delay setting) and want to have it available at one footswitch. Stepping more than once for changing the sound makes me crazy! That's the reason.

Helmut

 

[uwgestein]

Ahh, ok that makes sense...

 

[eddiespaghetty]

I guess we just posted at the same time LOL

So it seems you've done it all right with the MS-4. Seems all right to me. I think I also program them all at once usually.

Is there a way you could monitor what the MS-4 is giving out when you switch programs, for example with a multimeter?

What if you only connect one relais at a time, does it work then to switch to that channel via program change? I guess your cables are all Ok?

I have no idea what else could be the issue ...

Well, I use an y-cable on relais 1 and 2 to switch channel one and two on the amp. The program change switches between the channels, but only, when I switch the LEDs off by hand at the MS-4 each time I use a program change. That is why I was thinking not beeing in the momentary mode, but the fast blinking LEDs while I am adjusting the mode tells me, that I should be in momentary mode.

When you switch with a program change - what does your LED do - does it light up an go off again or does it stay "on" - and what is happening with the LEDs, when you change the channel (relais)? You are using an y-cable and a stereo jack to the amp as well?

Cheers

 

[hunter]

I guess we just posted at the same time LOL

So it seems you've done it all right with the MS-4. Seems all right to me. I think I also program them all at once usually.

Is there a way you could monitor what the MS-4 is giving out when you switch programs, for example with a multimeter?

What if you only connect one relais at a time, does it work then to switch to that channel via program change? I guess your cables are all Ok?

I have no idea what else could be the issue ...

Well, I use an y-cable on relais 1 and 2 to switch channel one and two on the amp. The program change switches between the channels, but only, when I switch the LEDs off by hand at the MS-4 each time I use a program change. That is why I was thinking not beeing in the momentary mode, but the fast blinking LEDs while I am adjusting the mode tells me, that I should be in momentary mode.

When you switch with a program change - what does your LED do - does it light up an go off again or does it stay "on" - and what is happening with the LEDs, when you change the channel (relais)? You are using an y-cable and a stereo jack to the amp as well?

Cheers

On the Cornford (latching) I use a 2xMono to 1xStereo adapter cable (not exactly a Y-Cable which would be 2xMono=>1xMono I guess?). On the XTC I made a custom cable of 4xMono Jack to 5 Pin XLR.

Indeed the light stays on when I switch programs on the MS-4, also in non-latching, it doesn't just blink.
I think you should try to figure out a way to monitor what is happening on the MS4. I think if you connect a multimeter in switching mode (on/off) you could measure what is happening, if the non-latching impulse is happening and how long it is?

 

[eddiespaghetty]

I have a multimeter (but only used it for biasing amps). Can you tell me, how to use it with the MS-4?

 

[jswevers]

I do not think you can measure the very short closing of the MS-4 switches in momentary mode.
I have not tried it with my multimeter yet, but I guess a multimeter requires more time to settle
its measured value than the 12 msec or 100msec that are available in the MS-4 momentary switch modes.
If you have an oscilloscope and a 9 Volt (or less) battery you can measure it I am sure.

Anyway, I would first check the cables. Use a guitar cable that you know that works and use
this to see if it allows you to switch a channel.

Jan

 

[jswevers]

Dear Ed,

Did you manage to get the MS4 working with the Schmidt yet? Or did anybody else out there get this
working? I am quite interested since I have MS4's and planning to go for a Schmidt next week ...

Jan

 

[eddiespaghetty]

Hi,

no, regretfully >I haven't it managed yet. All my efforts turned to dust!
I ordered a new insert-cable yesterday, which might be here tomorrow. I will see, if that could be the reason. I'll let you know!

Best
Helmut

 

[Peter Diezel]

Helmut, kannst Du mir den MS-4 schicken ?

Ich könnte die Funktionen messen.

Beste Grüße,

Peter

 

[eddiespaghetty]

Danke Peter,

mach ich.

Grüße
Helmut