Shiva 20th Questions

[Ignition]

So I had a chance to check out the new Shiva and had a few questions from those of you who have one. I've had the older EL34 version before, so I was pretty familiar with the tone. The thing that always bothered me about it was how easily the bottom end would get fuzzed out sounding when playing fast.

The anniversary shiva had the same range of clean that I liked about the EL34 one. The distortion on channel two tracked a lot better too. I just couldn't dial out a honky midrange. No matter how I set it was still there. Then I realized it was probably the cab, they had me running through an open back 2x12 with v30's. I tried a 1x12 with a Celestion 80 and it sounded better, but I still wasn't 100% sold on it.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about, or which cab really works well with this head? Pretty much everything that the shop had was v30 loaded.

RIght now my favorite setup is a VHT Deliverance 120 with an orange cab loaded with V30's and 75's in an X pattern. Was hoping to find a channel switching amp and the Shiva clean has always been a favorite, should I be looking elsewhere?

 

[glip22]

So I had a chance to check out the new Shiva and had a few questions from those of you who have one. I've had the older EL34 version before, so I was pretty familiar with the tone. The thing that always bothered me about it was how easily the bottom end would get fuzzed out sounding when playing fast.

The anniversary shiva had the same range of clean that I liked about the EL34 one. The distortion on channel two tracked a lot better too. I just couldn't dial out a honky midrange. No matter how I set it was still there. Then I realized it was probably the cab, they had me running through an open back 2x12 with v30's. I tried a 1x12 with a Celestion 80 and it sounded better, but I still wasn't 100% sold on it.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about, or which cab really works well with this head? Pretty much everything that the shop had was v30 loaded.

RIght now my favorite setup is a VHT Deliverance 120 with an orange cab loaded with V30's and 75's in an X pattern. Was hoping to find a channel switching amp and the Shiva clean has always been a favorite, should I be looking elsewhere?

Take out the KT88's and install SED 6550's. Mine is not honky at all. Very round, think, and creamy tone. I'm using it with a Bogner Front loaded cab.

 

[Ventura]

So I had a chance to check out the new Shiva and had a few questions from those of you who have one. I've had the older EL34 version before, so I was pretty familiar with the tone. The thing that always bothered me about it was how easily the bottom end would get fuzzed out sounding when playing fast.

The anniversary shiva had the same range of clean that I liked about the EL34 one. The distortion on channel two tracked a lot better too. I just couldn't dial out a honky midrange. No matter how I set it was still there. Then I realized it was probably the cab, they had me running through an open back 2x12 with v30's. I tried a 1x12 with a Celestion 80 and it sounded better, but I still wasn't 100% sold on it.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about, or which cab really works well with this head? Pretty much everything that the shop had was v30 loaded.

RIght now my favorite setup is a VHT Deliverance 120 with an orange cab loaded with V30's and 75's in an X pattern. Was hoping to find a channel switching amp and the Shiva clean has always been a favorite, should I be looking elsewhere?

Take out the KT88's and install SED 6550's. Mine is not honky at all. Very round, think, and creamy tone. I'm using it with a Bogner Front loaded cab.

The 'Shiva Pimp' strikes again

V.

 

[se7en]

Stock 88's = glassy and boring...either 34's or 6550's do a lot to smooth out things and make the amp sing and sound rich.

 

[sinestro]

Sounds more like the OP has issues with the EQ of this amp than the gain structure or overall voicing. I doubt tubes are going to change that.

The Deliverance is a really hi-fi sounding amp, you may want to consider just getting another amp for cleans.

 

[steve_k]

don't judge a shiva on an open-back 212 or a 112. the 20th shiva with 6550's through a 412 with V30's made my short list of amps that made the cut. it is one of those set and go amps that never has to be tweaked. i don't use it for clean but that's me as i don't judge any of them for a clean channel. i go straight to the "oh shit" mode.

steve

 

[RockStarNick]

I did not like the 20th with the KT88s that much. Honky is the right word. Honky, overly-aggressive, and harsh. I still don't understand why all these companies went nuts for KT88s for a while there. I think they're terrible tubes for warm guitar tones.

I loaded mine with EL34s, clipped a resistor, rebiased, and I'm never looking back.

 

[steve_k]

I did not like the 20th with the KT88s that much. Honky is the right word. Honky, overly-aggressive, and harsh. I still don't understand why all these companies went nuts for KT88s for a while there. I think they're terrible tubes for warm guitar tones.

I loaded mine with EL34s, clipped a resistor, rebiased, and I'm never looking back.

yup........

that's the money shot there...

 

[Telefied]

Do you have to clip a resistor to bias up the SED 6550s? If not I think I may try that. Although I am not unhappy with the KT88s and the preamp tube selections I have made to tweak the tone.

 

[steve_k]

If you have a duet of 6550's with a fairly high PC rating, you won't have to clip anything. Otherwise, the bias will be too low. It makes all the difference in the world on the 20Shiva. Gone is the glassy and brittleness. In comes the cream and the harmonics.

Steve

 

[Telefied]

If you have a duet of 6550's with a fairly high PC rating, you won't have to clip anything. Otherwise, the bias will be too low. It makes all the difference in the world on the 20Shiva. Gone is the glassy and brittleness. In comes the cream and the harmonics.

Steve

Did you have to clip the resistor in your or did you get 6550s that bias'd up OK. Is there a plate current I should be asking for specifically or a range you suggest?

Thanks

 

[steve_k]

You don't have to clip the resistor. Bias current is close. See if you have a bias written on the 88's that came in the amp. Try to get some 6550's near the same rating as the 88's.

 

[RockStarNick]

Straight from Charlie at Bogner:

"R61 is a 33k resistor. You can add or remove a resistor to this to change the bias range.
Thanks,
Charley Polacheck - Bogner Amplification"

On my Shiva, R61 had two piggybacked resistors for the KT88 setup. You should be able to bias 6550's as a drop-in with no resistor clip.

I had to remove one in order to get the bias range correct for the EL34's. An easy mod to do (as long as you're safe and have a steady hand), but definitely NOT an easily reversible one if you're not an amp tech. After playing an original Shiva EL34, and my 20th with KT88s for a few months, I was 95% certain that I really did not want to go back to KT88s, so I made the plunge.

That, and, I had a stockpile of great =C= EL34s lying around. hahah.

 

[glip22]

Straight from Charlie at Bogner:

"R61 is a 33k resistor. You can add or remove a resistor to this to change the bias range.
Thanks,
Charley Polacheck - Bogner Amplification"

On my Shiva, R61 had two piggybacked resistors for the KT88 setup. You should be able to bias 6550's as a drop-in with no resistor clip.

I had to remove one in order to get the bias range correct for the EL34's. An easy mod to do (as long as you're safe and have a steady hand), but definitely NOT an easily reversible one if you're not an amp tech. After playing an original Shiva EL34, and my 20th with KT88s for a few months, I was 95% certain that I really did not want to go back to KT88s, so I made the plunge.

That, and, I had a stockpile of great =C= EL34s lying around. hahah.

I dropped SED 6550's in mine and I am more than happy with the tone.

 

[lame guitarist]

Putting 6550's in this week, are there any instructions for biasing the 20th shivas?

 

[glip22]

Putting 6550's in this week, are there any instructions for biasing the 20th shivas?

Nope. Bias pot is easily accessible near the power tubes. I just used a probe and DMV. Make sure you use the SED's. I cooked two pairs of NOS GE. Luckily the seller credited me. The second pair was a replacement and the Shiva cooked them at low bias. SED's work perfectly. Post back.

 

[RockStarNick]

SHIVA BIAS: I know that this has been discussed ad infinitum on other threads and forums, and it seems that everyone has varying opinions on what is best for biasing the Shiva.

But Charlie at Bogner told me to keep it biased on the cold side at idle, because it WILL drift upwards when cranked.

If you bias it hot at idle, chances are, you will cook your tubes.

 

[glip22]

SHIVA BIAS: I know that this has been discussed ad infinitum on other threads and forums, and it seems that everyone has varying opinions on what is best for biasing the Shiva.

But Charlie at Bogner told me to keep it biased on the cold side at idle, because it WILL drift upwards when cranked.

If you bias it hot at idle, chances are, you will cook your tubes.

All power tubes bias drifts up quite high the louder you crank the amp. I have watched my meter go upwards of 150 ma. This is normal. My Shiva puts 495 volts on the plates. I installed 6550's and biased it as a 30 watt tube and biased it to 55%. 30/495=.06061x.55= 33Ma. The KT88's I wuld bias to 35 MA. BTW, What a great sounding and feeling amp.

 

[RockStarNick]

Agreed. Such a versatile amp. Love it. Definitely ended my rock amp search.

 

[glip22]

Agreed. Such a versatile amp. Love it. Definitely ended my rock amp search.

That's why I got a Twin Jet Put in KT77's and behold the beast.