Sometimes it gets Frustrating

  • Thread starter Thread starter Giblesoqul2001
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Giblesoqul2001

Giblesoqul2001

Active member
From show to show and the different venues and also sometimes the same venues. Most of the time my rig sounds GLORIOUS and I leave the show a satisfied man and no reason I would ever consider any changes, and then there are the nights that something just don’t sound right and I can’t seem to EQ the amp, turn the volume up or down add or subtract gain to make it sound much better, basically “dog pooh” and all I think about after the show is what changes should be made. Does your amps source of power or 5 things plugged into the same surge protector make that big of a difference?
 
I'm a firm believer that the power going into a tube amp needs to be consistent if you're wanting to get a consistent tone out of it. Also, depending on what kind of amp you're using it may have been designed to run at a lower voltage than the ~120v coming out of most wall sockets which can make a difference in how they sound as well. I bought one of those Amprx Brown Box's from another member here, and it does a great job of allowing me to see the incoming wall voltage and then adjust the voltage going to the amp to make sure that it's the same (or at least really close) every time I use the amp or to make sure I'm giving the amp the voltage it was designed to see. Even though I rarely leave the house with an amp, the voltage here at home varies from day to day. You can imagine that if you're playing at different locations, how widely varied the voltage might be from one place to the next. It also allows you to dial down the voltage (like a Variac) to a certain extent, which makes amps sound different too.

You can do all the same things with a Variac, and probably for a lot cheaper but the brown box is somewhat of a "safer" option that's not going to let you go too far one way or the other.
 
I should know better, just because it comes on it may not be consistent with its tone. Some of these wing joints have two outlets to plug everything into. Just think other amps.PA & lights. Drop cords and surge protectors everywhere. I will look into the Brown Box sounds like something I need to invest in.
 
For the last few years I have been into 20 watt EL 84 amps and have been using them for the volume and the ease of the weight of them. However a few weeks ago the band had a outdoor show on a big stage. I decided to bring my Marshall 1980 JMP 50 watt and my what a difference. I don’t think I will be buying anymore low wattage heads.
 
In my experience it depends on the amp, but it also depends quite heavily on the band. I also like having a higher and lower watt option, depending on the show & venue.

With most rigs I've played, I could generally get a sound I was extremely happy with, but occasionally I'd have a night where I was fighting with it. The two rigs that stood out to me as never causing this issue were my VHT d60 head and peavey delta blues 1x15 combo, I never had an issue getting exactly what I wanted from those with little fuss. Most of the time I was using them though, I was playing with other guys who knew how to tune drums and dial their own rigs in to sound good without stepping all over anyone else, so it made the job a little easier.

Not every venue, sound system, or sound guy is going to work in your favor. With the right gear and ability to flexible, you can generally overcome that for the most part, playing most types of music.
 
RaceU4her said:
i learned working for a wedding band before i had my own bands that not every gig is gonna sound ideal, a carpeted corner in a tiny bar isnt gonna sound the same as a big open wooden stage, some nights it just isnt happening and it sucks
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Agreed 100% 👍 I've done and still am doing a lot of shows and the difference in sound from venue to venue whether indoors or outdoors can be completely different
 
cobrahead1030 said:
In my experience it depends on the amp, but it also depends quite heavily on the band. I also like having a higher and lower watt option, depending on the show & venue.

With most rigs I've played, I could generally get a sound I was extremely happy with, but occasionally I'd have a night where I was fighting with it. The two rigs that stood out to me as never causing this issue were my VHT d60 head and peavey delta blues 1x15 combo, I never had an issue getting exactly what I wanted from those with little fuss. Most of the time I was using them though, I was playing with other guys who knew how to tune drums and dial their own rigs in to sound good without stepping all over anyone else, so it made the job a little easier.

Not every venue, sound system, or sound guy is going to work in your favor. With the right gear and ability to flexible, you can generally overcome that for the most part, playing most types of music.
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The D60 with a closed back cab has been the most consistent rig I've ever used. Inside or outside I can hear every note. An always on delay helps with dead rooms, too.
 
I had a bar, long ago in Seattle that had not enough power and it would cause a 2nd MV mod in my JMP to not work properly. The voltage had dropped enough that the relay used to foot switch to it barely worked. I took it back to Soldano thinking there was something wrong (they did the mod). They explained the voltage thing and tweaked it so it wouldn’t be so susceptible anymore. Never happened again.
 
I'm not a tech, but I guess I kinda assumed that any variations in wall voltage would affect the voltages of pre and power tubes.

When the wall voltage fluctuates, it seems like voltages to preamp and power tubes would be similarly affected, unless they're being fed regulated voltages. I've played in venues as low as 108v, and as high as 125v. 117v +/- 5% might not seem like a big deal, but what about 420v plate +/- 5%? Now factor in tolerances in the components that manipulate the voltages inside our gear.

I use the same Furman at home that I gig with. When I'm playing a show, my amp is running at the same voltage as when I biased it at home. My pedals are operating at the same voltage as when I dialed them in at home. Maybe it's overkill, but it's not impossible to believe that variations in voltages are why our amps sometimes sound different. While a subtle variation of a few percent might not be a big deal, I think it's more the cumulative effect of pedals being 1-2v off, into preamp tubes that are 10-15v off, followed by power tubes that are 20-30v off. Just a guess.
 
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RaceU4her said:
i learned working for a wedding band before i had my own bands that not every gig is gonna sound ideal, a carpeted corner in a tiny bar isnt gonna sound the same as a big open wooden stage, some nights it just isnt happening and it sucks
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I loath outdoor shows . I hate THAT sound
 
Used to constantly have this problem in the studio, and it was literally recorded for reference. Same rig, same settings - sometimes it would sound huge and other times just harsh. Turns out the voltage out of the wall was all over the damned place. Doesn't affect most other gear, but tube amps are finicky.

Using a BrownBox now to keep voltage stable and it's always consistent.
 
Giblesoqul2001 said:
From show to show and the different venues and also sometimes the same venues. Most of the time my rig sounds GLORIOUS and I leave the show a satisfied man and no reason I would ever consider any changes, and then there are the nights that something just don’t sound right and I can’t seem to EQ the amp, turn the volume up or down add or subtract gain to make it sound much better, basically “dog pooh” and all I think about after the show is what changes should be made. Does your amps source of power or 5 things plugged into the same surge protector make that big of a difference?
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If not already, you probably should do what the pros do and use IR's. Seems to keep things more or less consistent and then you might need to tweak to the room you are in. But ultimately, just do what YJM does... play extremely loud, yell at a sound guy now and again, and just giv'er.
 
Back when I was gigging 25-30+ times per year and most Sunday's at church I ran my Furman into this: Tripp Lite 1200W Line Conditioner. Some of the crappy old bars we played in barely had enough power to run the lights, others seemed to be directly connected to the grid and 125-130 volts was not uncommon. I was concerned my old Marshall was going to go up in smoke, that Tripp Lite worked perfectly. I play every Sunday at church and it still does the job, keeping the voltage between 118 and 122.
 
guitarmike said:
Back when I was gigging 25-30+ times per year and most Sunday's at church I ran my Furman into this: Tripp Lite 1200W Line Conditioner. Some of the crappy old bars we played in barely had enough power to run the lights, others seemed to be directly connected to the grid and 125-130 volts was not uncommon. I was concerned my old Marshall was going to go up in smoke, that Tripp Lite worked perfectly. I play every Sunday at church and it still does the job, keeping the voltage between 118 and 122.
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Bingo.

In my live playing days I used a voltage regulator (Furman AR 1220) for years after experiencing the same thing @Giblesoqul2001 did. Actually the band shared one which we had in a rack case on the side of the stage when needed. I can almost guarantee if your sound is off, it's because the voltage is off. Once we invested the money beyond the standard rack conditioner (which I have as well-Furman), didn't have the issue's. At the least get a great power conditioner/surge protector so you'll know the voltage you are running. Won't regulate but at least you'll know what's going on.
 
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jabps said:
Bingo.

In my live playing days I used a voltage regulator (Furman AR 1220) for years after experiencing the same thing @Giblesoqul2001. Actually the band shared one which we had in a rack case on the side of the stage when needed. I can almost guarantee if your sound is off, it's because the voltage is off. Once we invested the money beyond the standard rack conditioner (which I have as well-Furman), didn't have the issue's. At the least get a great power conditioner/surge protector so you'll know the voltage you are running. Won't regulate but at least you'll know what's going on.
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This.
I never realized how much voltage made a difference until one night at our drummers place; he had a small heated garage where we rehearsed. One day my Jubilee sounded totally different. Not worse, just different. Turns out his power varies 10v or more from time to time. Which, that day he measured it and it was at 112. Other days, 124.
Every gig/room requires a small eq adjustment; but when the voltage varies that much re eqing won’t work as well.
 
War_in_D said:
I'm a firm believer that the power going into a tube amp needs to be consistent if you're wanting to get a consistent tone out of it. Also, depending on what kind of amp you're using it may have been designed to run at a lower voltage than the ~120v coming out of most wall sockets which can make a difference in how they sound as well. I bought one of those Amprx Brown Box's from another member here, and it does a great job of allowing me to see the incoming wall voltage and then adjust the voltage going to the amp to make sure that it's the same (or at least really close) every time I use the amp or to make sure I'm giving the amp the voltage it was designed to see. Even though I rarely leave the house with an amp, the voltage here at home varies from day to day. You can imagine that if you're playing at different locations, how widely varied the voltage might be from one place to the next. It also allows you to dial down the voltage (like a Variac) to a certain extent, which makes amps sound different too.

You can do all the same things with a Variac, and probably for a lot cheaper but the brown box is somewhat of a "safer" option that's not going to let you go too far one way or the other.
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This is what I use for consistent power.
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I feel like maybe 30% of gigs sound great to me, the rest is a struggle or less than ideal, no matter what amp I'm using. I seem to have better results playing outdoors because there are no shitty room acoustics to fuck up the sound and I can turn up some. I'm not investing in more shit to lug around and set up, I just deal with it and know that most of the audience has no clue and doesn't think not care about it.
 
Ever sound checked and said “damn right this sounds awesome this is going to be a fun night” until about half the show your looking back at your amp and wondering what the heck happened now its sounding like ass.
 
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