Spent Just a Few Minutes With The M4 Last Night

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dfrattaroli

dfrattaroli

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I'm still really new to using separate preamps and poweramps. Does it matter what gets turned on first?

Last night I ran the M4 outputs into each channel of the VHT 2/50/2 and then to 2 CAA 1x12 cubes. I had the output knobs on each channel of the VHT at noon. Presence and Density 7am (off).

I found I had to have the module channel masters and gains at least half way up with the Master at 9am to get any volume. It was late and I couldn't crank it so I'm not concerned about the volume levels.

I did notice that the output levels of each channel seem to be very different. A is not as loud as B. I didn't expect that. The E-rect has less gain than I expected. But then again, all 3 gain channels seemed to have to be at least 3/4 of the way or maxed for my taste at that volume. On the other hand, it's all usable.

I think I prefer the MHG to the EG5 at this point but it's just way too soon to know.

Also, my CAA cabs are brand new. The Eminence Gov's have minutes on them so I think they need to be broken in. I have a Budda 4x12 that I'm going to run in mono tonight after I get back from the gym to see how different that sounds.

Dave
 
Are your pickups powerful?

I only need my Erect gain at 12 and it's pretty brutal! My pickup is 22.5k though
 
dfrattaroli":3libh1c0 said:
I did notice that the output levels of each channel seem to be very different. A is not as loud as B. I didn't expect that. The E-rect has less gain than I expected. But then again, all 3 gain channels seemed to have to be at least 3/4 of the way or maxed for my taste at that volume. On the other hand, it's all usable.

Dave
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Funny you said that. When I was shopping the EG5 all the reports here were "crushing gain," and "I put the gain about 1 o'clock TOPS," etc.

When I got the EG5 in my M4, I expected way more gain on tap--I guess I had built it up (and I think I had hangover from my last amp which was very gainy). I started with the gain about 4 o'clock.

Well, time has passed and it must be my getting used to it because now my gain on EG5 is right around noon-1 o'clock!

I suspect you may experience a similar situation with the ERECT. Have fun with the M4.
 
AdamB":frd9rhkf said:
Are your pickups powerful?

I only need my Erect gain at 12 and it's pretty brutal! My pickup is 22.5k though
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I was using a guitar with Steve's Special and Air Nortion pickups. I haven't tried my Suhrs yet.
 
M4 tips:

1. Turn the Channel master all the way up on your cleanest channel, and base everything off of that.
2. Turn the Overall Master volume to around noon or whatever your following FX unit in the signal chain can handle.

3. The Steve's Special has a scooped midrange, and therefore, will make all of the modules harder to drive into super-gainey territory. The Erect gets the least use for me at the moment, but I found it opened up like a dream for the week I had EMG's in my first Juggernaut. I'm just saying, you might want to try a pickup with a bigger midrange (Breed, JB, '59, Aldrich, etc.)

4. The EG5 takes some tweaking. Put the Bass Boost on "2", and dial back the bass knob. You'll find it will fill out perfectly, and sound ridiculous. gain @ 1 O'clock should be just about right on the EG5
 
+1 to everything GuitarSlinger said.

Also, I'm not sure if the master on the M4 is different, but Iv'e found the Master Volume knob on the Mod50 to be very gradual, but I liked that! I'm so tired of amps that go from zero to LOUD when the master is on like, 1.5. Makes it really hard to dial in sounds at a low volume. I prefer the smoother taper of the egnater.
 
Anything past 1 oclock for gain on EG5 is just compression. The thing has so much gain by 1 oclock its ridiculous.
 
guitarslinger":1h92yxsd said:
1. Turn the Channel master all the way up on your cleanest channel, and base everything off of that.
Click to expand...

i run my mod50 t/d the same way.. my twin side is cranked, and i base everything off that. the erect usually around 1o'clock for volume, and anywhere between 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock for gain
 
I generally cannot run my clean modules at full volume because they cause the TimeFactor to clip. Basically, I set the cleans as loud as I can without clipping in the Eventide and then set everything else to match. The plus to not running the channel masters all the way up is that I get to crank the power section more and get more power tube distortion!
 
guitarslinger":3u6sf4ij said:
3. The Steve's Special has a scooped midrange, and therefore, will make all of the modules harder to drive into super-gainey territory. The Erect gets the least use for me at the moment, but I found it opened up like a dream for the week I had EMG's in my first Juggernaut. I'm just saying, you might want to try a pickup with a bigger midrange (Breed, JB, '59, Aldrich, etc.)
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+10

My old guitar player had an Ibanez with a Steves Special in the bridge and the way the mids are scooped makes it sound kind of weak. It definitely does not drive the front end very hard.
 
RockStarNick":2f2d7fe6 said:
+1 to everything GuitarSlinger said.

Also, I'm not sure if the master on the M4 is different, but Iv'e found the Master Volume knob on the Mod50 to be very gradual, but I liked that! I'm so tired of amps that go from zero to LOUD when the master is on like, 1.5. Makes it really hard to dial in sounds at a low volume. I prefer the smoother taper of the egnater.
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+100

I just got a pair of 1x12s and I need to break them in as well. I think I'm going to hook an ipod up to a power amp into the cubes and let them run a few hours a day. Right off the bat though, 1x12s sounded nothing like 2x12s or 4x12s to my ears. Kind of makes me want to try that huge OS egnater 1x12 down the line..

I think the erect sounds very full, and it might first not sound like a ton of gain, but when you play along with songs you realize they weren't using as much gain as you may have thought. That's been my experiences at least. I'm also using fairly low output pickups, but I like how it gives me an "open" high gain sound.
 
I swear that more and more Im thinking that the secret to monstrous guitar tone is a monstrous bass tone. A thick, fat juicy bass tone can make guitars sound HUGE.

Look at King's X Dogman. That was a Dual Recto and that record sounds massive. A good engineer and a great bass tone is crucial for guitars.
 
+1.

I don't care how good the guitar tone is. If your kick and snare aren't in your face, and the bass isn't grinding and monstrous, the mix will be weak.

Now back to our regularly scheduled M4 discussion..
 
I agree, a lot of times it's easy to just "hear" one massive guitar tone, but really you are hearing the guitar and bass going together.
 
I did what some of you recommended. I set the volume on channel A of my T/D to max and channel B about 3pm. I then set the other mods based on that.

I noticed that my VHT's Level buttons were in so that meant -10db. Once I let them out, there was considerably more volume. That mods are all pretty quiet but EG5 is a little hissy in comparison.

If you're wondering why I'm not gushing yet it's because I'm being very objective. It's my first real rack experience and I'm just trying to be sure everything is as it supposed to be.

I had the VHT channel outputs at noon. Should the power amp be set louder? I assumed I should set the PA as loud as possible to get the the tubes working. I'm also wondering about the condition of the tubes in the VHT. I'm going to pop in a new set.

There's plenty of gain but I get the impression from what some of you are saying that there should be more. For instance, I generally have to set the gain to 3pm to get what I think is alot. Someone here mentioned that the Erect is "brutal" with the gain at noon. Not so from where I'm sitting.

I still haven't played my Suhrs through it yet and those guitars have such clarity that they tend to require even more gain to get to the same point.

Dave
 
dfrattaroli":28rmyp0p said:
I did what some of you recommended. I set the volume on channel A of my T/D to max and channel B about 3pm. I then set the other mods based on that.

I noticed that my VHT's Level buttons were in so that meant -10db. Once I let them out, there was considerably more volume. That mods are all pretty quiet but EG5 is a little hissy in comparison.

If you're wondering why I'm not gushing yet it's because I'm being very objective. It's my first real rack experience and I'm just trying to be sure everything is as it supposed to be.

I had the VHT channel outputs at noon. Should the power amp be set louder? I assumed I should set the PA as loud as possible to get the the tubes working. I'm also wondering about the condition of the tubes in the VHT. I'm going to pop in a new set.

There's plenty of gain but I get the impression from what some of you are saying that there should be more. For instance, I generally have to set the gain to 3pm to get what I think is alot. Someone here mentioned that the Erect is "brutal" with the gain at noon. Not so from where I'm sitting.

I still haven't played my Suhrs through it yet and those guitars have such clarity that they tend to require even more gain to get to the same point.

Dave
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"Power amp cranked" doesn't mean the tubes are working any harder. They work as hard as they sound. Low preamp signal in = not much to amplify. Personally, I hate the sound of power tubes distorting. It sounds like crispy papery sonic meltdown. Are you using a VHT 2902 or a VHT 2502?

Turn your power amp down.


What pickups are you using with the Erect? If you're the "Steve's Special" user, try something with a broader midrange. Boosted mids BEFORE the preamp are what really cause the gainier sound you want.

It's possible your cables suck too. That can turn a great sounding rack rig into a below par sounding rack rig.
 
guitarslinger":fdok5s8d said:
Are you using a VHT 2902 or a VHT 2502?

Turn your power amp down.
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I have the 2502.

I need to plug my Suhr Moderns into tonight and see how it goes.
 
I really dont think the E-Rect has all that much gain at Noon. I usually run it at about 2 oclock or so Id say. EG5 has enough gain at Noon for sure!
 
EWSEthan":17t28l4w said:
I really dont think the E-Rect has all that much gain at Noon. I usually run it at about 2 oclock or so Id say. EG5 has enough gain at Noon for sure!
Click to expand...

I agree with this.

I don't know who said the Erect was crazy brutal. I find it rather "tasteful" really.
 
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